Sworn Statement - Gloria Cruz
| Date: | September 18, 1997 |
| Pages: | 91 |
1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR PINELLAS COUNTY, FLORIDA
2
3
4
5
6
7 STATE ATTORNEY INVESTIGATION
8
RE: LISA MCPHERSON
9
10
11
12 SWORN
STATEMENT OF: GLORIA CRUZ.
13
TAKEN BY: Mark McGarry,
14 Assistant State Attorney.
15 DATE: September 18, 1997.
16 BEFORE: Lynne J. Ide, RPR, RMR
Notary Public,
17 State of Florida at Large.
18 PLACE: Office of State Attorney
Criminal Justice Center
19 B200
Clearwater, Florida.
23
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS
24 TAMPA AIRPORT MARRIOTT (813)224-9500
ST. PETERSBURG, CLEARWATER (813)821-3320
25
ORIGINAL
2
1 APPEARANCES:
2
3 MARK McGARRY, ESQUIRE
Assistant State Attorney
4 Attorney for State of Florida.
5 ALLAN "LEE" STROPE,
Special Agent,
6 Florida Department of Law Enforcement
28870 U.S. Highway 19 North
7 Suite 200
Clearwater, Florida 34621
8
WAYNE ANDREWS,
9 Detective Sergeant,
Clearwater Police Department
10 Clearwater, Florida.
11 RONALD K. CACCIATORE, ESQUIRE
Ronald K. Cacciatore, P.A.
12 100 North Tampa Street
Suite 2835
13 Tampa, Florida 33602
(813)223ƒ4831
14 Counsel for the Witness.
15 ____________________________________
16
INDEX TO PROCEEDINGS
17
Examination - Mr. McGarry Page 4
18 Examination - Agent Strope Page 56
Examination - Detective Sergeant Andrews Page 61
19 Cont'd. Examination - Agent Strope Page 73
Cont'd. Examination - Mr. McGarry Page 75
20 Cont'd. Examination - Detective Sergeant
Andrews Page 76
21
22
INDEX TO EXHIBIT
23
1 - Subpoena to Appear Page 3
24
25
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1 MR. CACCIATORE: I would like to put
2 something on the record.
3 MR. McGARRY: I was just getting ready to
4 ask you if you wanted to do that. It is your privilege.
5 Go ahead.
6 MR. CACCIATORE: My client, Gloria Cruz, is
7 here pursuant to subpoena. And I have advised my client
8 that pursuant to Section 914.04 of the Florida Statutes
9 she is receiving what us lawyers call use immunity at this
10 proceeding. If I am wrong, Mr. McGarry, I would
11 appreciate your. correcting me.
12 I would like to have attached to the
13 deposition, if it is ever typed up, a copy of this
14 subpoena.
15 MR. McGARRY: Well, you won't be getting a
16 copy of this. This is for our benefit.
17 MR. CACCIATORE: Well, I know.
18 MR. McGARRY: But you want a copy of that
19 attached? Okay, we'll be happy to, if you would.
20 (WHEREUPON, Exhibit Number 1 is marked for
21 identification purposes).
22 MR. McGARRY: We are ready to begin?
23 MR. CACCIATORE: Yes.
24 THE WITNESS: Yes.
25
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1 GLORIA CRUZ,
2 the witness herein, being first duly sworn, was examined
3 and testified as follows:
4 EXAMINATION
5 BY MR. McGARRY:
6 Q. Would you state your name for the record,
7 please.
8 A. Gloria Cruz.
9 Q. Where do you live?
10 A. X.
11 Q. All right, and where do you work currently?
12 A. AMC Publishing.
13 Q. Is that address the same address that you lived
14 at back in `95, is that the same condominium, just out of
15 curiosity? I can't remember what the address is.
16 A. No.
17 MR. McGARRY: Do you know the address?
18 DETECTIVE SERGEANT ANDREWS: Osceola.
19 A. 901 Osceola. B
20 BY MR. McGARRY:
21 Q. When did you leave that address?
22 A. December of `95.
23 Q. So that --
24 A. After --
25 Q. -- that very month you left there?
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1 A. After the death, yes.
2 Q. Let me get some background. Your birth date?
3 A. X/72.
4 Q. How long have you been living in Clearwater?
5 A. Since June of `95.
6 Q. All right. And where did you come from before
7 that?
8 A. I came from Dallas, Texas.
9 Q. All right. And you lived in Dallas and also
10 worked for ANC there?
11 A. Previous, the previous -- I think they moved
1? here in `93, so I worked at ANC from `91 to `93, then when
13 the company moved here I was still back there going to
14 college.
15 Q. In Dallas?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Okay. When did you join the church, if you
18 remember?
19 A. `91.
20 Q. Okay. And were you a parishioner, or did you
21 join Staff? Was that in Dallas?
22 A. I am a parishioner of the church, and I have
23 been a parishioner of the church.
24 Q. Never been a staff member?
25 A. Never.
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1 Q. And that was in Dallas that you did that?
2 A. Uh-huh.
3 Q. All right. How did you get introduced to the
4 Church of Scientology?
5 A. I met David and Bennetta Slaughter through a
6 friend, and I actually was looking for a way to go to
7 college. We met, and I liked them, so I came to live with
8 them. We had an agreement that I would --
9 Q. In Dallas you lived with them?
10 A. Uh-huh. And they came here to Flag. And I --
11 you know, I had told them some of the personal things I
12 was having trouble with in life, and I took a couple
13 courses that I really liked. And then from then on, you
14 know, it was something I wanted to study.
15 Q. So they took you in in Dallas first, you lived
16 with them in Dallas?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And that was just a gratuitous arrangement they
19 worked out with you?
20 A. No, actually I wanted to I guess you would
21 call it that. I wanted to be out of the house, I was --
22 when I was at home I was getting toward the end of my high
23 school years. And my mother said if I wanted to go to
24 college I needed to get creative.
25 So I actually looked at different situations how
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1 I could go to college. I was looking at living with a
2 family in Wisconsin who would help me with college, I
3 would help them with their child.
4 Q. Yes?
5 A. And, you know, it just happened I met David and
6 Bennetta.
7 Q. Was there some child care duties involved there?
8 A. Well, her best friend, I used to babysit for
9 Bennetta's friend in Dallas, and that is how I met
10 Bennetta and David.
11 Q. Did they have a child, also?
12 A. David and Bennetta?
13 Q. Yes.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Now it is a little clearer to me.
16 MR. CACCIATORE: Why don't you -- so we can
17 get a full understanding, why don't you tell him where you
18 got your degree from and what it was in.
19 A. Yes, before I made the arrangements, I graduated
20 and then I got some scholarships so I was able to go to
21 SMU, and my first two years I went to community college
22 and lived with David and Bennetta. Then they moved here
23 after -- toward the end of it, then I lived in Dallas and
24 finished up at SMU and got a marketing degree.
25 Q. So David and Bennetta moved to Flag, or moved to
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1 Clearwater?
2 A. Uh-huh.
3 Q. And you followed them here for that reason, for
4 the reason -- what reason did you follow them to
5 Clearwater?
6 A. Well, you know, after I was out of college, I
7 have a marketing degree, I looked at what I wanted to do
8 in terms of a career, I interviewed with a couple of
9 companies and I wasn't really particularly interested in
10 any of them. I had worked for the company, and decided
11 that I wanted to do sales. So, you know, I didn't
12 particularly have any attachments to Dallas, any
13 commitments, so I moved here.
14 Q. Why did the company, AMC Publishing, move from
15 Dallas to Clearwater?
16 A. I am not sure.
17 Q. Lock, stock and barrel? Or did they just open
18 another branch?
19 A. No, the company, the company was very small, I
20 mean, I would say maybe about eight employees. It is not
21 what it is now. So it was, you know, just moved.
22 Q. Was Lisa employed with ANC in Dallas?
23 A. Yes, she was.
24 Q. That is why I asked that. And you met her
25 there, right?
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1 A. Uh-huh.
2 Q. Tell me about how you came to meet Lisa in
3 Dallas.
4 A. Well, I was working at the company part-time,
5 because I studied the rest of the time. So I would come
6 in a couple hours in the afternoon. And, you know, I was
7 doing some of the running of errands, being receptionist.
8 And she was somebody, you know, an employee that I knew
9 from working there in the afternoons.
10 Q. Who was the boss there in Dallas?
11 A. David and Bennetta and Jeff.
12 Q. And Jeff is who, Jeff who?
13 A. The three partners of the company.
14 Q. Jeff, what is Jeff's last name?
15 A. Jeff Shavner (phonetic).
16 Q. He's part owner with David and Bennetta?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. So they would have been -- all three would have
19 been Lisa's boss at that time?
20 A. I mean, I don't know how it was set up, if there
21 was somebody like CFO or CEO or whatever, but I would
22 guess so.
23 Q. Okay. So did you strike your friendship up with
24 Lisa McPherson in Dallas?
25 A. Yes. I think, if anything, she was more an
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1 acquaintance, somebody that I knew.
2 Q. Right. Was your connection there also something
3 to do with possibly that she was also a member of the
4 church?
5 A. Not really, because we actually -- you know, I
6 spent most of my time at school. I came to the office
7 couple hours, and that is pretty much the only time I
8 would see her.
9 Q. Well, you were taking courses in Dallas,
10 correct?
11 A. Yes, but that was in the afternoons. We all --
12 Q. I mean courses in the church?
13 A. Yes, it was at night. Different schedules. You
14 know, Lisa was also ten years older than me. We didn't
15 run around the same social groups.
16 Q. But you didn't take any courses together in
17 Dallas?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Was she taking courses in Dallas?
20 A. I wouldn't know.
21 Q. Okay. How long had she been working for AMC
22 when you started there in Dallas, do you remember?
23 A. Don't know.
24 Q. Do you remember what her job responsibilities
25 were when she was working at AMC?
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1 A. Well, when she was in Dallas she was a sales
2 consultant.
3 Q. Did ANC operate virtually the same way they did
4 in Dallas as they do now, or did they branch off and do
5 different things, if you know?
6 A. No, it is the same service, I mean --
7 Q. Describe to me the service, if you would. I'm
8 not familiar with exactly what she did, Lisa did.
9 A. Basically what our company does, we have three
10 different -- actually four different advertising mediums
11 that the insurance marketers can use to reach the
12 insurance agents. We have a card pack, which is like what
13 you would get on your door like value coupon, except it is
14 specific to our industry; they can buy lists of agents to
15 mail to; we can put out their own mailing, then we can use
16 magazines to reach the same audience.
17 So the sales consultant part of that would be
18 finding the marketers and prospects to sell to so they can
19 advertise to the agents.
20 Q. Who are the people that are trying to get to the
21 agents?
22 A. The marketers. It would be like your home
23 office company for Kemper.
24 Q. Right?
25 A. Southland, whatever major insurance company you
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1 might have.
2 Q. And they'll have -- why is it they would want to
3 get to agents? They have their own company, their own
4 agents. Why would they need your company to get to other
5 agents?
6 A. Well, they actually -- you know, I mean,
7 basically if you have the company and you want to reach
8 agents, you would have to spend some money in marketing.
9 Well, with our mediums, most of it is turn key,
10 we handle the designing, printing and mailing. And it is
11 the most inexpensive way to advertise, because you could
12 mail in the card pack and spend three cents per piece, to
13 where if you wanted to send the agent a letter you would
14 spend forty cents a letter after postage, printing and
15 everything else. So that is the mediums we offer. Not
16 only does it save them time, but it saves them money.
17 Q. So as a salesperson for AMC then you are out
18 courting those people that try to get to the agents, as
19 well as you already have a list somehow compiled for
20 agents, right?
21 A. From the states, yes.
22 Q. And so you are courting the business companies
23 to use your medium to reach the agents with whatever
24 materials those companies want to get to the agents,
25 right?
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1 A. The marketers, yes.
2 Q. So do you have your own printing facility and
3 everything for that?
4 A. No, we have vendors for that. We have our own
5 marketing and advertising department but we don't have a
6 printing facility.
7 Q. Who do you use for printing, somebody local?
8 A. No, it is somebody out of the state. I don't
9 really know where they are.
10 Q. So you send out all of the stuff for design and
11 stuff, that is not in-house either, is it?
12 A. That is in-house.
13 Q. So your design is in-house?
14 A. Uh-huh.
15 Q. And that design, then you are using an
16 out-of-state printer for that?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. For printing up the materials?
19 A. Right. I mean, you know, I can't tell you what
20 all of the jobs are done local. I know that we have a
21 local printer here, but there is -- I know -- I don't
22 think they are mailed from here. I'm sure there are lots
23 of different vendors we deal with, depending upon who
24 offers the best price on whatever we're doing.
25 Q. So are you now doing what Lisa used to do?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. So did you take her clients? I mean, were some
3 of those clients given to you? Do you have clients?
4 A. I do have clients.
5 Q. So, for instance, give me your biggest client.
6 Who would that be?
7 A. My biggest client?
8 Q. Yes.
9 A. Mmm, God, there is a company in Iowa called NA
10 Brokerage. They do very good business with me. And I
11 have been able to develop it into a rather good situation
12 for both of us.
13 Q. Who was Lisa's best client?
14 A. Couldn't tell you. I don't know.
15 Q. Okay. So did you come to Clearwater first, or
16 did Lisa?
17 A. Lisa did.
18 Q. She did?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Same reason, right, as far as you know, because
21 of the company?
22 A. Well, Lisa came when the company moved.
23 Q. So she left with Bennetta and David?
24 A. Yes, she left when the company moved.
25 Q. All right. You finished up your school, that is
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1 when you came and joined the company, as well?
2 A. Uh-huh, correct.
3 Q. How did you end up in a living arrangement with
4 Lisa?
5 What was your first living arrangement, or was
6 that your first living arrangement?
7 A. My first living arrangement, I came home, when I
8 say home I mean with David and Bennetta, and that whole
9 year, year and a half they had been here I had been living
10 on my own. So then I came here.
11 There was a program actually as to how I was
12 going to get to sales, but I wasn't making very much money
13 then so I really couldn't afford to live on my own, didn't
14 really care to. And then I found out Lisa also was
15 single, she didn't have a roommate, and she lived rather
16 close to office, too. So then I thought, you know, for
17 both of us, it was very convenient.
18 Q. So she had the place first; the condominium?
19 A. She had the place first, it was her place. It
20 was a two bedroom, you know. She had a spare room she
21 wasn't doing anything with.
22 And when I moved in with her, you know, the
23 agreement was she knew that I wasn't making very much
24 money, but we did an exchange to where -- first of all,
25 Lisa never liked to like cook and clean and do any of
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1 those things. I wasn't making much money. It was
2 convenient for me to move in with her, she provided living
3 room, I could do cooking, not very much cooking, but I
4 could do cleaning, bought groceries and whatever errands
5 she needed.
6 Then we had the arrangement as soon as I first
7 started to get into sales and started making money, we
8 would split the rent.
g Q. I see. And that arrangement began, if you
10 remember, when?
11 A. September.
12 Q. September of `95?
13 A. Uh-huh.
14 Q. Which is when she went clear, correct, is that
15 possible?
16 DETECTIVE SERGEANT ANDREWS: September of
17 1995 she went clear.
18 BY MR. McGARRY:
19 Q. Do you remember that? It is a big deal for her,
20 I guess, but maybe not for you.
21 A. Well, I do remember that she actually had gone
22 clear like days or weeks before I moved in with her,
23 because I did go to the ceremony where she, you know, she
24 was announced and she got up on stage and gave her wins,
25 so I do remember that. That was very recent --
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1 Q. So it was right before?
2 A. Yes, right before.
3 Q. Who owned the condominium? Is that somebody she
4 knew, or was it somebody that she had a connection with,
5 or was it just anybody?
6 Who did the rent check go to, do you know?
7 A. I don't know. When I moved there everything was
8 established, all of the bills were in her name, the rent
9 thing came to her.
10 Q. Okay. That was a pretty good arrangement
11 because both you guys went to AMC, you could share even a
12 ride there to the publishing company, correct?
13 A. We could but we never did. We had, you know,
14 different schedules. If anything, we -- the only time we
15 would meet up is sometimes in the evening.
16 Q. Were there different hourly shifts for employees
17 at ANC, or were they basically eight to five?
18 A. They were the same for everyone. Obviously if
19 somebody had an appointment or whatever, or was doing
20 vacation time, it would be different, but the schedules
21 are the same. ˘
22 Q. I mean, were there any late nights involved?
23 Was there ever anybody staying nine, ten o'clock at night
24 working?
25 A. Oh, I stayed plenty of times working late,
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1 handling whatever needed to be handled.
2 Q. Right. How many employees were there in `95, if
3 you can recall, the best you can recall?
4 A. I don't know, I would say maybe about fifteen.
5 Q. Fifteen? And the same three were in charge in
6 Clearwater as they were in Dallas, correct?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Was there any hierarchy after them, or was it
9 pretty much them and then everybody else?
10 A. Well, I mean, there is an organiEation board
11 that the company runs -- runs under.
12 Q. Is there any -- I mean, is there like a pyramid
13 of people involved in the company, there is sales people,
14 then another level of administration, then --
15 A. Yeah.
16 Q. -- then Bennetta and David?
17 A. Yes. It is like, you know, you have your sales
18 department with your sales people, and your sales manager,
19 your sales secretary, then you have your advertising
20 department with the copywriters, graphic artists, and just
21 the whole structural division. And the company is managed
22 that way.
23 Q. So at the time you were employed also as a
24 salesperson?
25 A. No. I was not.
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1 Q. Okay, what were you employed as?
2 A. When I first got out of college and moved here
3 one of the first things I did was I held a receptionist
4 job.
5 After that, I did what you call a client service
6 manager where I handled getting the clients, the art work
7 from them, and then getting it to them for approval. So
8 that is a whole little structure.
9 Then after that I did the director of
10 productions where I was making sure that, our outside
11 vendors, you know, printed and got everything correctly
12 for our clients.
13 Then after that I was training to do some
14 promotion and marketing.
15 So that, you know, my goal when I first got
16 there was to learn as many divisions of the company as I
17 possibly could. I already had done some of that in Dallas
18 part-time, but I wanted to learn as much as I could about
19 each division to really understand what it was we did,
20 then to be able to move into sales.
21 Q. Because sales is where the people make their
22 most money, I guess commissions being what they are and
23 everything?
24 A. Yeah.
25 Q. I mean, that is obviously a step up money-wise
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1 to get into the sales department, correct?
2 A. Correct.
Q. For instance, Lisa's position at that time was a
4 sales position. Was she making a salary and commission?
5 Or how did they do that? Was it straight commission?
6 A. Don't know.
7 Q. Well, how are you -- how is your compensation
8 done?
9 A. How is mine done now?
10 Q. Is it straight commission? Or is it --
11 A. No, it is both.
12 Q. So --
13 A. It is commission --
14 Q. Hers probably was the same way?
15 Don't know?
16 A. I don't know. I mean, discussing it maybe with
17 somebody there longer would be different, but I'm not sure
18 how the other ones are structured. I know how mine is.
19 Q. Yours is you get what you get by performing, not
20 from a salary every month?
21 A. Correct. There is a small salary, but you are
22 right, the rest of it is on production.
23 Q. Right. So you know, I'm not trying to trick you
24 or anything, I detect there is probably a little pressure,
25 under that particular scheme of things, especially if you
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1 are paying bills and such, as opposed to just making a
2 straight salary, would you agree with that?
3 A. No, I personally don't.
4 Q. You don't have any pressure at all to perform?
5 A. The only pressure, I mean, it is personal.
6 Q. Right, that is what I'm saying, to make money
7 you have to perform?
8 A. Yes, absolutely. If I come into the week and
9 don't do any sales, you know, what I'm used to or what I
10 would want, it would be a very little paycheck.
11 Q. So after Lisa went clear in September, you moved
12 in together, she had a little, I believe in Scientology
13 terms it would be referred to as a spin.
14 Are you familiar with that term, "spin"?
15 A. No.
16 Q. You are not? The only reason why I use that
17 term, it is what Annie Mora used. Do you know that term?
18 A. I don't.
19 Q. She's in OSA.
20 A. What is in OSA?
21 Q. Annie Mora.
22 A. But what is OSA?
23 Q. That is the Office of Special Affairs in the
24 hierarchy of the church, OSA.
25 A. Oh, okay.
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1 Q. And apparently that summer Lisa was having some
2 problems as far as dealing with, I don't know, emotional
3 problems, I don't know whether it was a boyfriend, I don't
4 know whether it was pressure at AMC, or a combination, or
5 maybe it was some pressures within the church that caused
6 her to be hung up a little bit and progressing to -- not
7 only before she got clear but after she got clear she had
8 some problems, and I think she actually obtained some
9 services from the church.
10 Since you were there, I would like you to
11 describe that situation for me, if you would.
12 A. I -- I mean, you said the summer. I didn't live
13 with her --
14 DETECTIVE SERGEANT ANDREWS: She moved in
15 in September after Lisa had her spin in July, or July and
16 August.
17 THE WITNESS: Could I get some water?
18 MR. McGARRY: Yes.
19 (Recess taken).
20 BY MR. McGARRY:
21 Q. I was talking about the summer of `95, and you
22 moved in in September. The detective pointed out that she
23 had that prior to you moving in with her. But you knew
24 Lisa at the time, right? I mean, did you know anything
25 about that, that episode she had?
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1 A. No, I didn't.
2 Q. You didn't? Did she ever talk about it?
3 A. No.
4 Q. During that period from September to December,
5 did she ever -- did you ever have the opinion that she was
6 under a lot of stress or pressure? Did she ever give you
7 that feeling?'
8. A. No.
9 Q. She didn't?
10 A. No.
11 Q. You don't recall who Lisa's largest client at
12 the time was?
13 A. I do not.
14 Q. Bennetta would probably know that, right?
15 A. She might.
16 Q. How about her health, did you observe any
17 unusual things about her health, unusual characteristics?
18 Did she appear to be experiencing any weight loss or
19 health problems during that period of time?
20 A. No. You know, we did walks together for
21 exercise. I bought the groceries. You know, we never had
22 lots of stuff but, you know, there was always stuff she
23 could make a sandwich with, cereal for the mornings,
24 yogurt, protein drinks. And then sometimes we would meet
25 up for dinner, you know, at local restaurants. So I don't
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1 recall anything unusual.
2 Q. Did she have a boyfriend during that period of
3 time, or no?
4 A. I couldn't -- I wouldn't know.
5 Q. She never said --
6 A.. No.
7 Q. -- anything about it? I
8 A. No.
9 Q. Did she ever go to a chiropractor during that
10 period of time that you know of?
11 A. Mmm, that I specifically know of? No.
12 Q. All right, she went on a seminar to Orlando?
13 A. Uh-huh.
14 Q. And you happened to be in Orlando at the same,
15 time, correct? Is that just by chance, or how did that
16 happen?
17 A. My girlfriend and I, we planned a trip for the
18 weekend to --
19 MR. CACCIATORE: Tell him the girlfriend's
20 name.
21 A. My girlfriend T.C. and I, we planned to actually
22 meet some friends who --
23 MR. CACCIATORE: The whole name.
24 A. Oh, T.C. Applebaum.
25
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1 BY MR. McGARRY:
2 Q. All right.
3 A. First of all, the seminar Lisa was going to,
4 those are arranged the beginning of the year. You know,
5 the company decides what seminars we are going to go to.
6 This happens to be one of -- actually our
7 biggest industry convention, it is planned early on and
8 they decide who is going to go.
9 But it just happened that this weekend, this
10 particular weekend, my girlfriend and I, T.C., planned a
11 trip to go meet friends in Orlando who had a place, they
12 were going to Disney, they got us tickets.
13 Lisa left from the office to come to Orlando on
14 a Wednesday. T.C. and I left the office to come to
15 Orlando on `a Friday after work.
16 Q. I see. So you kind of crossed
17 A. Yes, well, we returned on Sunday, close to
18 Sunday night.
19 Q. I got you. So she had already come back by
20 then, which would have been Friday night or Friday
21 evening?
22 A. I don't know when she came back.
23 Q. All right. So tell me about right before she
24 left for Orlando. Did you all -- did she discuss going to
25 Orlando? Did she seem normal then?
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26
1 A. Uh-huh. The night before, I guess it would have
2 been Tuesday night, you know, since, as I said, I used to
3 handle her personal things, there were certain things I
4 had taken to the dry cleaner. I helped her pack. I had
5 washed some of her things and I ironed some things that
6 night and we folded them up and we had to decide what she
7 was going to take. And then that night we discussed what
8 clothes she wanted me to pick up from the dry cleaner.
9 Then I brought them to the office that morning
10 and gave them to her and said good-bye.
11 But on Thursday she actually called me at home,
12. because we were supposed to go to this meeting to promote
13 Winter Wonderland, which is one of our projects we were
14 working on. Then she called me on Thursday from the
15 hotel, you know, making sure that I had arranged for
16 somebody to do this, since I was going to be gone, as
17 well. So that was the last time that I had a conversation
18 with her.
19 Q. How did she seem then on the telephone?
20 A. She seemed fine. Mmm, you know, I didn't notice
21 anything unusual.
22 Q. You talked to Bennetta about this, I'm sure.
23 Didn't Bennetta indicate to you that she was exhibiting
24 some kind of bizarre behavior when she was in Orlando,
25 Lisa was?
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - 813-821-3320
27
1 A. Bennetta talked to me about it?
2 Q. No?
3 A. No. I think after -- I mean, this is something
4 more recently that has come up through --
5 Q. You never had a casual conversation with
6 Bennetta where Bennetta said, "Hey, Gloria, by the way,
7 she was acting really strange in Orlando," that never came
8 up with Bennetta or David?
9 A. No, not until like, you know, recently in a
10 setting like this where I was -- I think somebody told me,
11 "Did you know anything about her unusualness in Orlando?"
12 And I was like, "I don't know what you are
13 talking about."
14 Q. What setting is that that that came up, so I
15 don't forget to ask that question? If it is with lawyers
6 or whatever, that is fine, too.
17 MR. CACCIATORE: I don't think it was with
18 lawyers, I think it was with me.
19 A. Yes, I mean --
20 MR. McGARRY: You are a lawyer, too, we
21 don't want to cut you out of the profession.
22 MR. CACCIATORE: ˘ But I don't think she had
23 been interviewed by any lawyers except me.
24 MR. McGARRY: But a lot of people have gone
25 over to interview with Sandy.
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - 813-821-3320
28
1 MR. CACCIATORE: Yes.
2 A. Yes, so, you know, I know that it wasn't
3 something like we sat down and discussed and was given to
4 me or talked to me about.
5 BY MR. McGARRY:
6 Q. Yes, I was just curious.
7 A. Okay.
8 MR. CACCIATORE: Why don't you go back and
9 explain, I don't mean to --
10 MR. McGARRY: No, if you want to fill in
11 details I missed, I would appreciate it.
12 MR. CACCIATORE: The way it sounds, it
13 sounds sort of like she didn't know anything. She knows
14 some things.
15 When did you learn something had occurred?
16 When you get home tell them about checking your messages
17 and your call to Bennetta.
18 BY MR. McGARRY:
19 Q. I'm going to get to that now. Why don't we go
20 back to that.
21 When you first got home you realized Lisa wasn't
22 around, right?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. We'll pick it up from there.
25 A. I came home that Sunday evening and I knew she
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - 813-821-3320
29
1 came back because there was -- actually, her suitcase was
2 back in the bedroom. And I played our messages and there
3 was a message on there from a guy saying, you know, "I
4 heard what happened, I'm sorry I couldn't be there for
5 you."
6 So then I was like, you know, well, what is
7 going on? So then I did call Bennetta and asked her, you
8 know, "I just heard this message, and where is Lisa?"
9 Then she told me that Lisa went to the Ft.
10 Harrison to handle some things.
11 Q. All right. Now, you didn't know who that person
12 was on the telephone?
13 A. I don't.
14 Q. Do you know today who that person was on the
15 phone?
16 A. No. Somebody I have -- you know I never heard
17 the voice. I didn't -- I can't say I know all her
18 friends.
19 Q. Now, did you ever see her car, Lisa's car?
20 A. I saw it after, I think a couple days after, I
21 saw it at the house.
22 MR. CACCIATORE: What house?
23 A. Well, at our apartment. It was parked.
24 BY MR. McGARRY:
25 Q. So that would have been Monday, or Tuesday
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - 813-821-3320
30
1 probably?
2 A. Probably about Monday or Tuesday.
3 Q. Do you know how it got there?
4 A. No, I don't.
5 Q. Was there obvious damage to the car that you
6 could see? I mean, you heard she was in a wreck and
7 everything, right?
8 A. Actually, what I saw, when I noticed her car was
9 there, I don't know what you call it, the grill,
10 carburetor thing, whatever it was, you know, it was -- it
11 was -- it was bent. And then that is when I asked, you
12 know, what happened.
13 Q. Who did you ask that to?
14 A. Mmm, I actually asked David.
15 Q. Did David tell you the story? When did you get
16 the story? I want to know who gave you the story about
17 Lisa's big run into the back of the boat trailer story,
18 where did you get that from?
19 A. I cannot -- I can't remember who. But I dOn't
20 even know that -- the details were like, well, what
21 happened? Yeah, she was in accident. And I think even
22 up until now, you know, the details, I don't know the
23 details.
24 Q. All right. Well, I was just curious. Usually a
25 roommate would seek those out. You understand my
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - 813-821-3320
31
1 suspicions about your roommate is in a boat -- or car
2 accident with a boat trailer, and now she's gone.
3 A. Well --
4 Q. Didn't Bennetta tell you what the deal was?
5 Because she went to the hospital. And you worked with
6 Bennetta. I would think you would have gotten the
7 information from Bennetta.
8 A. Well --
9 MR. CACCIATORE: Let me correct you, if I
10 may.
11 BY MR. McGARRY:
12 Q. Excuse me, she did not go to the hospital, David
13 did.
14 MR. CACCIATORE: Right.
15 BY MR. McGARRY:
16 Q. But Bennetta was aware what was going on.
17 MR. McGARRY: Thank you for correcting me.
18 BY MR. McGARRY:
19 Q. David went, I know David is also an employee or
20 owner of AMC.
21 A. Yes. To me, it was like when I called and said,
22 "What happened," or "Where is Lisa, I heard this message,"
23 when they tell me she went to the Ft. Harrison to handle
24 some things, to me, that was -- that was what -- you know,
25 I didn't need to know any details. She wasn't hurt.
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - 813-821-3320
32
1 Q. Who said that?
2 A. Bennetta. It wasn't anything unusual for you to
3 go to the church and handle -- or deal -- find something
4 that you are trying to handle. So to me that was -- that
5 was fine.
6 MR. CACCIATORE: Well, I don't think he
7 would understand that it is, not nusual. I mean, had you
8 known other people that had gone to the Ft. Harrison
9 before?
10 THE WITNESS: Yes.
11 MR. CACCIATORE: Explain that a little bit.
12 A. It is like, to me; I go to the Ft. Harrison, I
13 study, take courses. Sometimes if I need counseling, you
14 know, there is pastoral counseling, I think that would be
15 the right term, you go and you discuss those things.
16 Q. I understand. It is a little more unusual for
17 somebody to spend the night, there aren't that many
18 overnight courses I'm aware of.
19 A. Well, it is a hotel and it has facilities to
20 where a lot of the people that -- a lot of people, it is
21 headquarters, people from all over the world come.
22 Q. But if you live in town, you don't check in for
23 overnight counseling, it is my understanding you can get
24 your courses and certainly go home at a reasonable hour.
25 So you wouldn't characterize her stay there for
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS -˘ 813-821ƒ3320
33
1 a week or couple weeks anything unusual?
2 A. No.
3 Q. All right. I was curious. You mentioned that
4 her suitcase was on the bed. Do you know how it got
5 there?
6 A. I don't.
7 Q. You don't know that?
8 A. No.
9 Q. To this day you don't know?
10 A. I don't. It was actually her hanging bag.
11 Q. Hanging bag?
12 A. Yeah.
13 Q. Was that the only thing she took to Orlando was
14 a hanging bag, if you recall? The best you can recall.
15 That is all you can do.
16 A. I don't -- I don't know.
17 Q. All right. How about could you tell whether or
18 not it had been opened and things had been taken out, or
19 was it just hanging there? Was there things removed and
20 put back in their places?
21 A. Yes, things were removed. Some of it had been
22 put back in their places. I put a couple of things up.
23. Q. So you know where I'm going?
24 A. No.
25 Q. I know, but did it look like somebody had done
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - 813-821-3320
34
1 that other than Lisa, or did it look like Lisa put that
2 back? Do you see what I'm saying? Usually you can tell
3 if somebody has done it themselves, or somebody else had
4 done it.
5 A. I saw nothing unusual. To me, all I know, Lisa
6 had come home, unpacked. I don't know.
7 Q. I mean, you understand the question? Was there
8 any evidence there that looked like she came and put it
9 all back in, or somebody got that stuff out of her car and
10 brought it back, because I'm not so sure Lisa ever came
11 back to her apartment. I don't know anybody ever knew,
12 because she was driven straight from Morton Plant
13 Hospital.
14 I was curious, I was curious how the stuff got
15 back in that bedroom, and if it did, how the person let
16 themselves in the room without Lisa being there.
17 A. I don't know.
18 Q. So you don't know? That is where I'm going with
19 this. You don't have any idea?
20 A. No idea.
21 Q. How about personal effects like makeup bag,
22 brushes, combs, you know, personal effects, those ended up
23 at the hotel, too. Do you know how that happened?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Never talked to anybody since then and
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - 813-821-3320
35
1 discovered how that happened?
2 A. No.
3 Q. Bennetta never mentioned that, or David, or
4 anybody that went back there and got it or did it for her?
5 A. No. No.
6 Q. I don't know if you answered this. Did you
7 notice those things were missing?
8 A. I knew her -- yeah, I did know some of those
9 things were missing.
10 Q. That is my question. Do you know how they ended
11 up at the hotel? You didn't take them over there, did
12 you?
13 A. Right, I didn't. No, I don't know how they
14 ended up over there.
15 Q. Did anybody else have a key to that condominium
16 besides you and Lisa?
17 A. I don't know. I had my key that she made copies
18 of for me. The apartment had been hers for I don't know
19 how long. I don't know who else had keys. You know,
20 personally I had never given the key to anybody.
21 Q. As far as you are concerned, nobody else had
22 access to it but you land her, as far as you know?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Okay. You lived there. I would think that, you
25 know, that is a fair question.
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - 813-821-3320
36
1 So were you ever given -- other than the
2 information you got from Bennetta about her going to the
3 hotel for services, did you ever call over there to see
4 how she was doing, or call and say, "Hey, you know, I hope
5 you are okay," or anything like that?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Why was that?
8 A. Because, you know, she was over there handling
9 some things, and that is a personal matter.
10 Q. Okay. Were you ever given the information --
11 see, I have a lot of information now because I talked to a
12 lot of people, and I know she was there for like an
13 isolation watch and people weren't talking to her, they
14 were just letting her try to deal with her problem
15 herself.
16 Were you ever given that information that she
17 was over there in isolation watch and that is what she was
18 there for?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Do you know today that is why she was there?
21 A. Are you telling me? Or are you asking me?
22 Q. I'm asking you, do you know today if that is
23 what she was there for?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Let me ask you this. Have you been keeping up
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - 813-821-3320
37
1 with this in the papers, or do you avoid Lisa McPherson
2 articles?
3 A. I avoid them.
4 Q. So you haven't read anything in the newspaper
5 about Lisa Mcpherson?
6 A. I read something when it first started to come
7 out. I read something recently.
8 Q. But the day-to-day stuff pounding the streets
9 for much of the period between now and last December, you
10 haven't been reading them on a regular basis?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Okay. So you weren't aware that any of this
13 round-the-clock watch business, isolation watch, possible
14 introspective rundown as a procedure later to come, you
15 are not aware of any of that other than what you might
16 have read in the paper?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. And heard up until today, correct?
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. So who picked up Lisa's workload while she was
21 staying at the hotel?
22 A. I don't know.
23 Q. I mean --
24 A. I mean, you have to realize, I wasn't in that
25 division yet.
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - 8l3-821-3320
38
1 Q. Right. You also had a conversation, I believe,
2 with Debbie Cook. Did you have a conversation with Debbie
3 Cook about this?
4 A. Debbie Cook was the one that told me --
5 Q. She's the one that told you --
6 A. -- that Lisa had passed'away.
7 Q. That was when, do you remember what day that
8 was? Was it the night she passed `away?
9 A. It was the night she passed away, yes, late.
10 Q. So it must have been late at night?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And that conversation took place by phone?
13 A. No, Bennetta called me at the apartment and
14 asked me to meet her at the Clearwater Building. And I
15 went to the Clearwater --
16 Q. You have to be more specific, what is the
17 Clearwater Building?
18 A. The Clearwater Building is just a building right
19 there on Cleveland and Ft. Harrison that, you know, it is
20 like an open hall that the community can come and hold
21 events. It is just a really nice building.
22 Q. Owned by the church?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Is that an office that is open to the public, or
25 open to just staff?
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - 813-821-3320
39
1 A. No, it is actually open to public. It was an
2 old bank that was really nicely renovated, and we actually
3 invite community to come over and have their social events
4 there.
5 Q. So you met Bennetta there late at night?
6 A. I met Bennetta there, David was there, and so
7 was Debbie Cook.
8 Q. Just those three?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Okay. What time was that, that you can
11 remember?
12 A. I have to say between eleven and twelve. It was
13 late, at night.
14 Q. All right. Were you told, prior to you
15 arriving, why you were -- what had happened to Lisa? Or
16 did you get that information once you got there?
17 A. I got that information once I got there.
18 Q. Who gave you the information specifically?
19 A. Debbie did.
20 Q. What did she tell you?
21 A. She told me that Lisa had passed away that
22 afternoon. And, you know, I -- I think, if anything, that
23 was the main thing that I remember. The rest I remember,
24 I was crying and, you know, asked what happened. You
25 know, I was pretty upset.
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - 813-821-3320
[NOTE: Page 40 appears to be missing from the source]
41
1 got there, anything about the course. It is a question I
2 have asked forty-some people before her. There has not
3 been an objection by a lawyer.
4 MR. CACCIATORE: Oh, I understand because I
5 have asked the other lawyers. But my client is going to
6 be deposed in about two weks --
7 MR. McGARRY: In a civil case?
8 MR. CACCIATORE: -- in the civil case.
9 That lawyer made it clear he's going to do all kind of
10 things. He said that on the radio. And I just need to
11 maintain consistency.
12 I'm not trying to interfere with your
13 investigation,but I just think that her religious
14 practices, unless you think she knows something --
15 MR. McGARRY: I'm not asking for anything
16 to do with religious practice. All she has to tell me is
17 if she's clear or not clear.
18 MR. CACCIATORE: Oh, okay.
19 MR. McGARRY: It is a simple question. I'm
20 not going to go into anything about the course or
21 anything.
22 MR. CACCIATORE: Okay. You can answer
23 that.
24 A. No, I'm not clear.
25
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - 813-821-3320
42
1 BY MR. McGARRY:
2 Q. All right. Did you notice anything unusual
3 physically about Lisa? I read your prior statement when
4 the police talked to you way back and you mentioned she
5 had a bruise on her leg you recall?
6 A. Uh-huh.
7 Q. Can you describe that to me, please, as best you
8 can.
9 A. It was a bruise, it was toward the back of her
10 leg. You know, she had pretty fair skin so it was easy to
11 notice.
12 I asked her, like, "Wow, what happened there?"
13 She said she bumped into the desk. And it
14 wasn't really unusual, because she was at times kind of
15 clumsy.
16 Q. Does she bruise easily, do you think?
17 A. I don't know.
18 Q. The funeral for Lisa, that was where, was that
19 here, or in Dallas?
20 A. It was in Dallas.
21 Q. In Dallas? Who from here went, if you know?
22 A. I know Bennetta went, for sure. I don't know
23 who else went.
24 Q. Who would you describe as being Lisa's closest
25 friend in Clearwater?
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - 813-821-3320
43
1 A. I would say -- I mean, Brenda and Bennetta.
2 Q. Brenda is Brenda who?
3 A. Hubert, Brenda Hubert.
4 Q. Hubert?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Who is Brenda Hubert?
7 A. She's also a sales consultant at ANC, who works
8 at AMC. I don't know how long she has been there, but
9 they were friends back in Dallas, and they had mutual
10 interests such as country music dancing.
11 Q. So you also were involved in the Winter
12 Wonderland production?
13 A. Uh-huh, yes.
14 Q. Was just about everybody at ANC? It seems like
15 they were.
16 A. Not everybody. But, you know, a good number of
17 people1 were.
18 Q. Is Brenda a parishioner of the church, also?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Is everybody in the company?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Not everybody?
23 A. No.
24 Q. I was just curious. I wondered.
25 A. Nope.
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - 813-821-3320
44
1 Q. Just so I make it clear, you never had any
2 conversation with Lisa, after she got back from Orlando,
3 she never called the condominium, you never called, or
4 went over there, or wrote you a letter, or anything?
5 A. That is correct.
6 Q. Okay. One more thing I wanted to ask. What
7 does this mean, and not being a member of the church, you
8 can probably help out here.
9 "She had done several ethics handlings at her
10 work, AMC Publishing, owned and operated by David and
11 Bennetta Slaughter in Clearwater."
12 I better read the whole paragraph so you know
13 what this refers to. "Since then, up until her psychotic
14 break on November 18th of 1995, she had done several
15 ethics handlings at her work, AMC Publishing, owned and
16 operated by David and Bennetta Slaughter. She had been
17 writing O/W's for weeks and was acting strangely in the
18 last couple of days prior to her break, which was not
19 reported to Flag."
20 Now, what does that mean?
21 A. Mmm, I mean, basically what it means is that she
22 had -- you know, ethics, first of all, is a personal
23 thing. They are the things that you feel, based on your
24 knowing what is correct and what is wrong, what you feel
25 bad about and know you shouldn't be doing.
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - 813-821-3320
45
1 So from what I understand that you told me is
2 that she, you know, had some things that she didn't feel
3 very good about, some transgressions and, you know, if she
4 did a program or was writing them up, or I don't know what
5 exactly she was doing, but she was obviously -- obviously
6 felt bad about certain, things she had done.
7 Q. What are O/W's? What is that? Is that --
8 A. I mean, they are, you know, you operate on your
9 moral code, but if you have a certain thing you do that
10 you know are not in agreement with what makes you feel
11 good, or they are transgressions against others, or
12 against things that you believe, like I told this, client
13 -- or I lied about something, that would be something that
14 I know I would feel bad about. To me that would be an
15 overt.
16 MR CACCIATORE: Could you spell that?
17 A. It is O V E R T.
18 BY MR. McGARRY:
19 Q. Well, the reason why I bring this paragraph up
20 is because I wanted to see if you observed any of these,
21 it says here, "... acting strangely in the last couple
22 days prior to her break on November 18th."
23 You lived with her during that period of time.
24 Did you observe any of these observations that were made
25 by apparently your boss, bosses?
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - 813-821-3320
46
1 A. Mmm, no.
2 Q. You didn't?
3 A. No. I worked in one side of the company. She
4 was on another side. We didn't see each other during the
5 day. And if we saw each other, it was late at night when
6 we were ready to go to bed.
7 Q. Okay. Plus this information may have come into
8 the church by way of this system here, writing things and
9 auditing or whatever, correct?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. Explain how all that -- it must have been kind
12 of an ugly thing for you to be left with a condominium
13 that is not yours and all her stuff is in there.
14 Did you end up packing all that, or who helped
15 you do that?
16 A. Actually, before it was getting toward the
17 holiday, I already had a planned trip to Honduras to go
18 visit family. And I did ask --
19 Q. Is that where you are from, Honduras?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Are you an American citizen?
22 A. No. And, you know, I was concerned because I
23 had to leave, I had a scheduled trip.
24 And I was told, you know, I figure that Fannie
25 would come over and somebody would handle that. I didn't
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - 813-821-3320
47
1 have the particulars but --
2 MR. CACCIATORE: Let me interrupt you. You
3 were told, who told you what? Use a name.
4 A. Okay, well, Bennetta told me that she had talked
5 to Fannie, you know, about coming over and handling Lisa's
6 things.
7 Because the reason I asked, I didn't know what
8 to do with them. Then she asked me to go ahead and
9 organize, you know, to put everything in the way that
10 somebody could easily come and pack it.
11 So I organized Lisa's clothes. And, I mean,
12 everything was still intact, nothing was moved.
13 Then one Sunday my friend and I, who was
14 visiting' me --
15 MR. CACCIATORE: Friend?
16 A. Friend, Jime, J I M E, Perez. And we were -- he
17 had been there with me during the day cleaning, doing some
18 of the cleaning, then I was doing some of my own packing
19 for my trip.
20 And we were going downstairs and then I
21 recognized Fannie, because I'd actually met her earlier in
22 Dallas, you know. I was completely surprised.
23 And she got out of the car with what I know now,
24 her two sisters. I brought them up to the apartment and,
25 you know, they said, "We came to get Lisa's things."
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - 813-821-3320
48
1 I said, "Very well, come up here and then I'll
2 show you."
3 They went through the apartment. And her
4 sisters specifically were asking for particular things
5 that I didn't know about, such as rings and necklaces,
6 wills, insurance, clothes.
7 Q. Didn't know anything about any of that?
8 A. I didn't know anything about any of that. I --
9 specifically twice they asked me, those rings and necklace
10 they were looking for belonged to Lisa's dad and that
11 nobody else should have them but her mom.
12 So, you know, I wasn't quite sure where they
13 were going, so I clearly stated, you know, "I agree with
14 you, I agree with you a hundred percent, but I don't
15 really know what you are looking for."
16 Then they were like, "Well, where is her jewelry
17 box?"
18 I said, "I really don't know what you are
19 talking about. I never knew Lisa to wear jewelry. You
20 know, you are welcome to go through the apartment and find
21 whatever it is that you are looking for. I don't know
22 anything about any insurance or wills."
23 Then they asked me, "Had she bought any
24 Christmas presents?"
25 I brought a box and I mentioned to them she did
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - 813-821-3320
49
1 buy one Christmas present, which was Bennetta's, and it
2 was a dress. I asked them what they wanted me to do with
3 it? They told to go ahead and give it to Bennetta.
4 And, you know, they asked me had she made any
5 other recent purchases. So I went through the closet and
6 showed them Lisa had bought like a wardrobe, some nice
7 clothes recently. They laid them out on the bed and said
8 these would fit Lisa's cousin who was about the same size.
9 I go, "Okay."
10 So then I turned over my key to them, because I
11 knew they were going to be staying there. I told them,
12 "This is my bedroom. I'll be packing it. I'm getting
13 ready to go to Honduras." And I actually turned over the
14 key to them that evening.
15 Then after that, you know, I didn't have any
16 access to the apartment unless they were there. You know,
17 I never thought --
18 Q. Did you give up the apartment pretty soon or
19 quickly, or was that it?
20 A. That was it. I --
21 Q. I mean you gave up the apartment lease?
22 A. I never handled the lease.
23 Q. So you just left, that was it, you came back and
24 got your stuff out of your room and that was it?
25 A. I came back and brought -- there was this
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1 particular piece of furniture they questioned about, a
2 make-up dresser, little make-up dresser that Lisa lent to
3 T.C. earlier.
4 Q. Who?
5 A. T.C. Applebaum. This little make-up dresser was
6 in the room where I was going to move into, and Lisa asked
7 me if I wanted it. I said, "Actually, I don't. My
8 furniture is white, it doesn't match." It was cherry. So
9 then she asked T.C. if she wanted to borrow it. T.C. said
10 sure.
11 So then her family asked me about that piece of
12 furniture. I said, "Yeah, I know where it is, let me go
13 get it."
14 So I went over and got it from T.C. who lived
15 right down the street. Then on that trip I came and
16 actually took some of my personal things out, some of the
17 clothes.
18 But after that, actually, I didn't come back to
19 the apartment, my friend Jime, then my other friend Chris
20 Alexander, were actually the ones who moved the furniture
21 out of the apartment.
22 Q. You moved to where, to where you are now?
23 A. No, I moved to T.C., I moved in with T.C.
24 The furniture was, you know, it was a bed, two
25 little tables and a dresser, and then the personal
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1 clothes.
2 Q. The stuff from the hotel, how did that get back
3 to Fannie, if you know?
4 A. I don't know.
5 Q. Did you ever see anything that came back from
6 the hotel in Clearwater? Did that ever come back through
7 the condominium? Or did it go straight to Fannie through
8 another route? Or do you know?
9 A. I don't know.
10 Q. So you never saw it?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Anything that she had there?
13 A. No.
14 MR. CACCIATORE: Does Chris Alexander live
15 in Clearwater?
16 THE WITNESS: He does.
17 MR. CACCIATORE: Where does Jime, if I
18 pronounced it right, live?
19 THE WITNESS: He lives in Dallas.
20 MR. McGARRY: Gloria, I think that is all
21 of the questions I have for you. If you would like to
22 take a break, we can. These guys probably have a couple
23 questions and we can be done.
24 THE WITNESS: Okay.
25 MR. NcGARRY: You can plunge ahead, or --
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1 THE WITNESS: I would like a break.
2 MR. McGARRY: All right.
3 (Recess taken).
4 MR. McGARRY: I have a couple more
5 questions.
6 BY MR. McGARRY:
7 Q. Gloria, did you ever have an occasion to be lent
8 any money by, Lisa, borrow any money, have to pay it back
9 or anything like that?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Could you explain that, please.
12 A. Yes. There was a situation going on where one
13 of my uncles was like -- actually, he was an illegal
14 immigrant and he was caught and stuck in a jail in Mexico.
15 And at that point I was actually handling the --
16 the bills were coming to our house, I had Kurt Paine sign
17 blank checks, and that is how I was paying bills.
18 Q. I need to know at what point we are talking
19 about.
20 A. This is after she had gone to the Ft. Harrison.
21 That would have been, I guess, November.
22 Q. But before she died?
23 A. Yes. So then this situation came up. And, you
24 know, I really thought, well, how can I help? So I did,
25 there was a check I wrote out to my name, twenty five
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1 hundred dollars. okay --
2 MR. CACCIATORE: Give him that.
3 A. Actually, 12/3.
BY MR. McGARRY:
5 Q. All right.
6 A. So, you know, the plan was actually to lend that
7 money out. But the money actually sat in my account
8 because I was thinking, you know, I wanted to make sure I
9 would be able to replace it. I wrote the check. And then
10 I wrote the check back to her.
11 Q. All right.
12 MR. CACCIATORE: When you say you wrote the
13 check back to her, money was redeposited in her account?
14 THE WITNESS: Yes, that is correct.
15 BY MR. McGARRY:
16 Q. All right, so you loaned yourself money from
17 Lisa?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. Without her permission?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. Then paid it back?
22 A. Right.
23 Q. And that amount was twenty-five hundred. Now,
24 what was that used for?
25 A. It wasn't actually used. It sat in my account.
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1 Q. And the purpose was, though, to help out your
2 uncle in Mexico?
3 A. It was going to be.
4 Q. And it wasn't needed?
5 A. No, actually I didn't go through with it because
6 I wanted to make sure it would be able to be paid back,
7 but it actually didn't happen.
8 Q. I see. Okay, so there was no communication
9 between you and Lisa when this occurred, this was
10 something you did on your own?
11 A. That is correct.
12 Q. All right, so how is it, though, you were able
13 to write a check, from her into your account without
14 writing her name on the check? You wrote her name on the
15 check? You signed her check?
16 A. No, I already had checks signed from somebody
17 else, Kurt, who happened to have an account with her.
18 Q. I'm confused, Kurt --
19 MR. CACCIATORE: Explain the relationship
20 that existed between Lisa and Kurt in the past --
21 THE WITNESS: Okay.
22 MR. CACCIATORE: -- in the account.
23 BY MR. McGARRY:
24 Q. Who is Kurt?
25 A. Kurt Paine was somebody that was -- you know, I
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1 don't know if they were engaged, but they were boyfriend
2 and girlfriend at some point.
3 Q. Okay.
4 A. When I lived in Dallas.
5 Q. All right.
6 A. Then he still -- they still had an account
7 together, a joint account. You know, I don't know why.
8 Q. All right, in Dallas?
9 A. No, here in Clearwater.
10 Q. Okay. All right.
11 A. Then up until that point they still had the
12 account and it was under his name so he was able to sign
13 some checks for me. I told him I was handling her --
14 paying the bills.
15 Q. Okay, so that account had sufficient enough
16 money for that check, twenty-five hundred dollars?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Did she have another account besides that?
19 A. I don't know.
20 Q. Do you know how much was in that account?
21 A. I don't.
22 Q. You don't know if it was more than one account?
23 A. No.
24 MR. McGARRY: All right, these guys
25 probably have a few questions I neglected to ask, and if
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1 you will indulge them, we'll be through.
2 MR. CACCIATORE: And who are you
3 gentlemen?
4 SPECIAL AGENT STROPE: I'm Lee Strope,
5 Florida Department of Law Enforcement.
6 And this is Wayne Andrews.
7 EXAMINATION
8 BY SPECIAL AGENT STROPE:
9 Q. We saw a photograph one time of the inside of
10 Lisa's apartment. She had some living room furniture and
11 things. Do you know what happened to those things? You
12 didn't mention them.
13 A. Yes, actually when Fannie and her two sisters
14 came, the furniture was there, they slept in the
15 furniture, and, you know, I was told they were going to
16 take it back with them.
17 Q. Did Lisa have any property that may have
18 belonged to the church that you took or returned?
19 A. That I took or returned? No.
20 Q. Yes.
21 A. No.
22 Q. So as far as you know, there was no jewelry, and
23 just furniture and personal belongings?
24 A. As far as I know, yes.
25 Q. Were you ever at the condominium maybe a couple
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1 of days after Lisa'went to the Ft. Harrison when someone
2 came to get her personal belongings for her?
3 A. No.
4 Q. You have no knowledge of that?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Do you know who delivered her vehicle back to
7 the condominium?
8 A. I don't.
9 Q. From the accident scene or from the garage?
10 A. No.
11 Q. Aside from your attorney, and I don't want to
12 get into that conversation, but aside from your attorney,
13 have you discussed this case or your testimony here today
14 with anyone else?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Have you ever discussed Lisa McPherson with
17 Brian Anderson or anybody from that office?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Do you know who Brian Anderson is?
20 A. Yes, I do.
21 Q. You never discussed your testimony here today
22 with anyone other than your attorney?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. And you did not go to the Ft. Harrison when Lisa
25 was there?
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1 A. Correct.
2 Q. Were you aware she was having some medical
3 problems?
4 A. No.
5 Q. Was Lisa on any kind of medication that you know
6 of?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Did she have a doctor that you knew of?
9 A. I don't know.
10 MR. CACCIATORE: Did she ever have any
11 medicine at home you saw, prescribed medicine?
l2 THE WITNESS: No.
13 BY SPECIAL AGENT STROPE:
14 Q. So you would describe her as healthy?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. She has been described as physically fit and in
17 good shape and an exerciser and dancer and someone who was
18 pretty high on life and someone who was pretty radiant.
19 Is that how you would describe `her?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. But no apparent physical problems?
22 A. No.
23 Q. What would you estimate her weight to be when
24 you saw her? Was she healthy?
25 A. Yes, she looked nice.
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1 Q. Did you notice that toward the end of her life
2 or her working career that she missed a lot of time due to
3 illness?
4 A. No.
5 Q. No? We noticed with the records that we have
6 obtained pertainiing to her employment that Lisa gave a
7 large percentage of her income back to the church.
8 Is that required of people who'work there that
9 are Scientologists?
10 A. No.
11 Q. That is not required?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Do you give that same percentage back to the
14 church?
15 A. I don't know what percentage you are talking
16 about.
17 Q. A very large percentage.
18 A. You know, I donate.
19 Q. I think we talked about eighty percent.
20 A. I said eighty percent?
21 Q. No, Lisa.
22 A. I don't know what percent she gave.
23 Q. Is that average for Scientologists, do you
24 think? Is that required?
25 A. I don't know. I don't know that it is required.
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1 Q. Are you paid regularly, like every two weeks, or
2 every week?
3 A. Uh-huh.
4 Q. Was Lisa having a problem at work that you know
5 of, maybe with finances or --
6 A. No.
7 Q. From what we could see, she didn't take a lot of
8 money home. Did she live frugally? Was she extravagant?
9 How was her financial status, as far as you know?
10 A. Mmm, you know, financially, she had -- her
11 furniture was new. I mean, the apartment was fully
12 furnished when I got there, very nice furniture.
13 You know, I never knew her to need anything. We
14 ate wherever we wanted to, bought the things that we --
15 you know, she bought make-up or lotions and clothes that
16 she wanted. I never saw money to be a problem.
17 Q. Did you have any indication that Lisa was
18 planning to move back to Texas?
19 A. No.
20 Q. No? She never mentioned that to you?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Did you have any indication that Lisa was
23 thinking of leaving the organization?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Who owns AMC Publishing?
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1 A. Well, I mean, David, Bennetta and Jeff were the
2 partners of the company.
3 Q. I guess what I'm asking is was the company
4 Bennetta's? Or the Scientologists'? Who owns the
5 company?
6 A. David, Bennetta and Jeff. And --
7 Q. Did they become Scientologists after they owned
8 AMC, or before? `
9 A. I don't know.
10 Q. You don't know?
11 A. No.
12 SPECIAL AGENT STROPE: I don't have
13 anything else. Thank you.
14 EXAMINATION
15 BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT ANDREWS:
16 Q. Since you do Lisa's job now, can you explain how
17 Lisa can make $140,000 in 1995?
18 A. How could she make one hundred --
19 Q. She made $140,000 in 1995 and donated
20 seventy-some odd thousand dollars back to the church. Now
21 you are doing her job.
22 Can you explain to me how someone can earn that
23 much money, how she earned that much money in this job?
24 A. Okay. Well, I mean, it is a sales job where,
25 you know, just like any other sales job, you are paid on
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1 commissions. Different structure in different companies,
2 but, you know, you can sell, I mean, you prospect every
3 day for business. You get referrals. And you can grow
4 your business as big as you can possibly grow it.
5 I mean, I make sales. You make sales every day.
6 It is not hard at all if you have developed a big client
7 base from, you know, being successful, to actually make
8 that kind of money.
9 Q. Not revealing a figure, but are you up in that
10 area that Lisa was in, today? You are in her job. Are
11 you up in the $140,000 range now a year?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Where did you live from.June of `95 until
14 September of `95 before you moved in --
15 A. I lived at home with David and Bennetta.
16 Q. You lived there with them?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Is that still 300 Buttonwood?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. So they were living in 300 Buttonwood in `95?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Whose suggestion was it that you move in with
23 Lisa?
24 A. It wasn't actually anybody's suggestion. I had
25 already been asking around and, you know, my intention was
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1 to originally get my own place. As I mentioned, I wasn't
2 in a situation financially, and I didn't care to live by
3 myself.
4 Q. Did you approach Lisa and ask her to move in?
5 A. Yes, I did.
6 MR. CACCIATORE: Do you have any
7 recollection about Bennetta talking to you?
8 THE WITNESS: Well, I mean, Bennetta --
9 MR. CACCIATORE: Well, let me -- back up,
10 maybe this will jar your memory.
11 Do you recall Lisa talking to Bennetta
12 about Lisa moving in at Bennetta's house? Do you have any
13 knowledge of that, or recollection of that?
14 THE WITNESS: No.
15 MR. CACCIATORE: No? Okay.
16 THE WITNESS: You know, from what I
17 remember, it was like Bennetta knew what my plan was when
18 I came here. Obviously I was going to be at home a while
19 and not making any money.
20 Then she mentioned to me Lisa lived by
21 herself. I got with Lisa, and it was definitely ideal for
22 both of us.
23 BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT ANDREWS:
24 Q. So it could have been suggested by Bennetta, it
25 might have been a mutual thing? `
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Lisa spent a lot of time -- well, I was curious,
3 correct me if I'm wrong, I got the flavor of the
4 impression from your testimony that you and Lisa didn't
5 have a relationship. But I understand from previous
6 people that Lisa did spend a lot of time at 300
7 Buttonwood, too.
8 A. That she didn't? Or did?
9 Q. She did spend a lot of time at 300 Buttonwood.
10 I had somebody telling me basically while the house was
11 being constructed and stuff she used to stay there
12 overnight, and I don't know if she ever watched their
13 daughter or son. Do they have a daughter, or son?
14 A. Yes, a daughter.
15 Q. So I found it strange you lived with David and
16 Bennetta, but somebody described Lisa spent a lot of time
17 there, too, and you guys didn't mix it up at all, being
18 younger and -- I mean, my understanding, I saw Bennetta,
19 you are younger than Lisa, and Lisa is younger than
20 Bennetta, so --
21 A. Yes. Well, first of all, when I moved to the
22 house in June it wasn't being constructed.
23 Q. No, I'm just saying I'm just laying background,
24 she did spend a lot of time there while it was being
25 constructed, and after it was constructed she spent a lot
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1 of time at Bennetta's house?
2 A. She would come over, she would come over and
3 tan, we had a pool, just like my other girlfriends do on
4 the weekends.
5 Q. Did they have a spare bed, she would sleep there
6 overnight?
7 A. We have a spare bedroom that guests can come and
8 use.
9 Q. I mean, while you were there for the three
10 months before moving in with her, did Lisa come there and
11 spend nights at Buttonwood, 300 Buttonwood?
12 A. She would come once in a while, yes, and stay in
13 our spare bedroom.
14 Q. Who was paying the extra rent at the condominium
15 when you moved?
16 A. The extra rent?
17 Q. Extra rent, yes?
18 A. She was paying all of the rent.
19 Q. Well, my understanding in interviewing the
20 landlord there, she was paying a certain amount of rent.
21 And when you moved in in September, the landlord charged
22 her more money. She was charged more money for you living
23 there.
24 And I found it kind of strange, if you were
25 friends, that she was picking up the tab for that. You
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1 were not paying any rent?
2 A. I wasn't aware of that. I don't know what
3 arrangement she had.
4 Q. You weren't aware there was extra money being
5 charged?
6 A. I wasn't aware.
7 Q. Apparently somebody was paying it. Maybe
8 Bennetta.
9 Does the company AMC use Scientology technology
10 or Hubbard technology, in their business practices, I don't
Ii want to say practices, but, you know, formation, as far as
12 how it operates?
13 A. We use the L. Ron Hubbard administrative
14 technology.
15 Q. You said you are into sales. It is a good
16 place, the harder you work, the more money you make. How
17 many hours a week do you average working?
18 A. Forty.
19 Q. About forty hours a week?
20 A. Yeah.
21 Q. Okay. Now, you mentioned that, you know, you
22 have bills and things like that. And I did recognize the
23 address of 300 Buttonwood as being Bennetta's home.
24 A. Uh-huh.
25 Q. Do you pay rent there?
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1 A. No.
2 Q. Okay, so do you pay food bills there?
3 A. Yes, sometimes.
4 Q. Okay. Like a board, sort of a board? My
5 question is what kind of bills do you have if you live at
6 Bennetta and David's house?
7 A. I don't really have any. I mean, I have my
8 personal, you know. I have a car.
9 Q. Insurance that goes,with the car?
10 A. Right.
11 Q. Unfortunately.
12 A. Right.
13 Q. Were you working AMC in July and August of `95?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Okay. Now, my understanding is that Lisa was
16 gone from work for,over a month. Do you remember that?
17 A. I -- you know, like I said, I was in a different
18 division. She was in a different area of the company. We'
19 didn't work together. But I never knew -- you know, I
20 never knew her to be absent for months and not see her.
21 Q. When you took your sales job, did you acquire
22 previous commissions from someone else?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Okay, so you had to start out new at the bottom
25 of the pile, and then any commissions you got, that starts
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1 your base now and how yu get your money? If you leave
2 now, say you want to go to Honduras and visit family for a
3 month, do you retain those commissions, or are they
4 transferred to someone?
5 A. Well, I mean, if they are sales I have made and
6 I have set up to the future, I mean, that is a sale I
7 created and the commission would go to me, just like any
8 other sales job. But if somebody comes in while I was
9 gone and they make a sale --
10 Q. That is their sale?
11 A. That is their sale.
12 Q. I found it strange, because we did get a
13 personnel file through Mr. Cacciatore on Lisa, I found a
14 form that transferred Lisa's commissions to someone else
15 in the office. And I was wondering if you were under the
16 same type of agreement with Bennetta and David, or maybe
17 you don't know that you are.
18 A. I have never -- I mean, I have never left. I
19 have never had to come up or look into that situation.
20 Q. Okay. Could you give us just a quick little
21 overview of life with Lisa from September to November.
22 know you said she was kind of happy-go-lucky, but just
23 give us a little -- was she hard to live with, or was it
24 easy to live with her, you know, just something like that.
25 We are trying to put together what her life was at that
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1 time, and it has been difficult'.
2 A. Right. It was very, very easy to live with her.
3 I know she loved having me around. I liked being around.
4 When I said around, the conveniency of the
5 things that would be done when she got home, she had a
6 clean place to go to. Then on the weekends if we both
7 happened to be home we would spend that morning together
8 either, you know, just laughing, or having coffee or
9 whatever. But during the day, you know, I didn't really
10 see her.
11 As far as any social activities together, we
12 never went out. We worked on Winter Wonderland together
13 and we would find ourselves at certain meetings promoting
14 Winter Wonderland.
15 Q. Did you see Lisa on that Wednesday before she
16 left for Orlando?
17 A. Yes, I saw her Wednesday morning.
18 Q. Could you describe her, could you give me her
19 height approximately on that date, height, weight, color
20 of hair and color of eyes?
21 A. I'm not very good at heights.
22 Q. Okay.
23 A. She was six, six something.
24 Q. Six foot? And weight? Usually you can base it
25 off yourself. That is how I look at --
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1 A. Off myself?
2 Q. I know it is tough. That's why you gave me six
3 foot.
4 MR. CACCIATORE: How tall are you?
THE WITNESS: Five.
6 MR. CACCIATORE: How much do you weigh?
7 THE WITNESS: I weigh one hundred two
8 pounds.
9 MR. CACCIATORE: Almost as much as me!
10 A. Let's see. I'm just trying to gauge her here.
11 I don't know what a person that tall --
12 BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT ANDREWS:
13 Q. All right, color of hair?
14 A. Color of hair? Maybe a little bit blonder than
15 that (indicating court reporter).
16 Q. Like reddish blond?
17 A. More like blond, though.
18 Q. Dirty blond or something?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Okay, dirty blond. Color of eyes?
21 A. Hazel.
22 Q. Okay. Now, we would go back to the term about
23 handle some things, you know, the term, and I don't want
24 to delve into your religion, but after talking to fifty
25 some odd people, I have a pretty good handle on the Church
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1 of Scientology religion.
2 But in your mind, with your education, not only
3 college but education in the church, what did it mean to
4 you when Bennetta said she went to the church to -- or
5 went to stay at the church to handle some things? Was
6 that overt withholds, was that RPF, was that -- you know,
7 what was it?
8 A. RPF?
9 Q. I doubt it, but, you know --
10 A. I don't know what -- first of all, I'm not sure,
11 RPF, I'm not sure that is a term.
12 What that meant to me was that Lisa had gone to
13 the Ft. Harrison, there were obviously things that were
14 bothering her that were keeping her from being happy and
15 doing the things that she wanted to do, and that she was
16 there getting the services that would help her, and it was
17 a private and spiritual thing that I wouldn't even ask her
18 about.
19 Q. You said you were getting ready to leave for a
20 holiday?
21 A. For Honduras.
22 Q. Is it a holiday in Honduras, or is that the ten
23 you are using for vacation?
24 A. No, I said the holidays were coming because this
25 was -- I had had a trip planned for the holidays, I was
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1 going to be in Honduras during Christmas.
2 Q. Okay, so in early December, this'would have been
3 the week of December 7th or 8th or something, you were
4 planning to go to Honduras for Christmas?
5 A. The trip was already planned for months, but the
6 relevancy of that was it was at that time, you know, that
7 I had already planned and was thinking, what is going to
8 happen to the apartment.
9 Then I happened to go downstairs, and to my
10 surprise Fannie was there. Then I mentioned to her, "This
11 is my bedroom, this is my things in here, the apartment, is
12 pretty much yours, this is Lisa's things, and I'll be
13 taking my things out and moving out."
14 Q. So the holiday was Christmas, that holiday?
15 A. Yes, that is the holiday I was referring to.
16 MR. CACCIATORE: Gloria, I don't think you
17 intended to do this, or even gave a date, but I think
18 there may be some confusion about when Lisa passed away
19 and when Fannie and her sisters came here.
20 In relationship to when -- in relationship
21 to when Lisa passed away, how long afterward was it this
22 event occurred with Fannie and her sisters?
23 THE WITNESS: Well, it was after the
24 funeral. I don't know when the funeral happened, but I
25 would say a couple weeks.
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1 BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT ANDREWS:
2 Q. So it was getting into the Christmas -- that is
3 why I found it strange.
4 MR. CACCIATORE: Well, the reason how she
5 answered it sounded like it was the next day.
6 BY DETECTIVE SERGEANT ANDREWS: -
7 Q. One last question. What day did you get home
8 from Orlando, Sunday?
9 A. Sunday.
10 DETECTIVE SERGEANT ANDREWS: I have no
11 more.
12 SPECIAL AGENT STROPE: I just have one.
13 CONTINUED EXAMINATION
14 BY SPECIAL AGENT STROPE:
15 Q. Again, we are asking you because we are trying
16 to find out what Lisa, as far as AMC Publishing, did. So
17 it is not that we are trying to pry or anything, but do
18 you have a set commission on sales? Is there a figure,
19 four percent, two percent, three percent?
20 A. Uh-huh.
21 Q. What is that percentage?
22 A. It is five percent.
23 Q. Five percent?
24 A. And there is -- you can earn an extra two
25 percent.
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - 813-821-3320
74
1 Q. So I'm not a math whiz, but if you are getting
2 five percent commission and you earn one hundred forty
3 thousand, that is two-million eight in sales in a year.
4 Do you do that kind of sales in a year?
5 A. Yes -- do I?
6 Q. Could you?
7 A. Absolutely. That is my goal.
8 Q. Well, Lisa made one hundred forty thousand. At.
9 five percent, that is $2,800,000 a year. Is it possible
10 to do that?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. It is?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. How many salesmen do you have there?
15 MR. McGARRY: He's going to be asking for a
16 job here.
17 BY SPECIAL AGENT STROPE:
18 Q. Yes, put in my application. How many sales
19 people do you have?
20 A. Let's see, there is me, Pat, John, DeeDee,
21 Brenda. There are five right now in my division that sell
22 card pack and magazine, and there are two other sales reps
23 that sell specifically our list services.
24 Q. So those are the people in that office that
25 could make the most money, obviously?
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - 813-821-3320
75
1 A. Sales?
2 Q. Yes.
3 A. Yes, you know, like I don't really have any
4 reality because I never really worked in other companies,
5 but from what I understand, I know that I can make --
6 Q. You know all of the salesmen there today?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Are they all Scientologists, all of the sales
9 people?
10 A. No, they're not.
11 SPECIAL AGENT STROPE: I don't have
12 anything further.
13 CONTINUED EXAMINATION
14 BY MR. McGARRY:
15 Q. I have one thing, then we're done.
16 I saw a name, Katie Chamberlain works there,
17 right?
18 A. Uh-huh.
19 Q. She still work there?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. She's with the church, right?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Did she handle the ethics thing with Lisa?
24 A. I don't know.
25 Q. Was she close to Lisa?
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - 813-821-3320
76
1 A. They knew each other from Dallas and --
2 Q. She came from Dallas, too, right?
3 A. Yes, and I think the bond between them two was
4 Katie loved country music.
5 Q. Oh, really? Okay.
6 MR. McGARRY: We are done.
7 SPECIAL AGENT STROPE: I just have one more
8 thing.
9 CONTINUED EXAMINATION
10 BY SPECIAL AGENT STROPE:
11 Q. When did you start at AMC in Clearwater?
12 A. June of `95 when I moved here.
13 Q. Do you know a person named Kay Proctor?,
14 A. Yes, I do.
15 Q. Were you here when she started?
16 A. I think Kay'was already -- I actually --
17 Q. She had already been gone?
18 A. I think she had already been gone. I knew her
19 back from Dallas.
20 ______________________________________________
21 WHEREUPON, THE STATEMENT WAS CONCLUDED
22 _______________________________________________
23
24
25
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - 813-821-3320
77
1 CERTIFICATE OF OATH
2 STATE OF FLORIDA )
3 COUNTY OF PINELLAS )
4 I, the undersigned authority, certify that
GLORIA CRUZ personally appeared before me and was duly
5 sworn.
6 WITNESS my hand and official seal this 19th day
of September, 1997.
9
Notary Public - State of Florida.
10
LYNNE J. IDE
11 COMMISSION # CC 467604
EXPIRES JUN 14,1999
BONDED THRU
12 ATLANTIC BONDING CO. INC.
REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
13
STATE OF FLORIDA )
14
COUNTY OF PINELLAS )
15
I, LYNNE J. IDE, Registered Professional
16 Reporter, certify that I was authorized to and did
stenographically report the statement of GLORIA CRUZ; and
17 that the transcript is a true and complete record of my
stenographic notes.
18
I further certify that I am not a relative,
19 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties, nor
am I a relative or employee of any of the parties
20 attorney or counsel connected with the action, nor am I
21 financially interested in the action.
22 DATED this 19th day of September, 1997.
23 LYNNE J IDE,
24 RPR, PMR;
25
KANABAY COURT REPORTERS - 813-821-3320
(The last fifteen pages are a concordance of terms in this transcript.)
(The last fifteen pages are a concordance of terms in this transcript.)
(The last fifteen pages are a concordance of terms in this transcript.)
(The last fifteen pages are a concordance of terms in this transcript.)
(The last fifteen pages are a concordance of terms in this transcript.)
(The last fifteen pages are a concordance of terms in this transcript.)
(The last fifteen pages are a concordance of terms in this transcript.)
(The last fifteen pages are a concordance of terms in this transcript.)
(The last fifteen pages are a concordance of terms in this transcript.)
(The last fifteen pages are a concordance of terms in this transcript.)
(The last fifteen pages are a concordance of terms in this transcript.)
(The last fifteen pages are a concordance of terms in this transcript.)
(The last fifteen pages are a concordance of terms in this transcript.)
(The last fifteen pages are a concordance of terms in this transcript.)
(The last fifteen pages are a concordance of terms in this transcript.)