Interview with Judy Goldsberry-Weber
| Date: | May 29, 1996 |
| Pages: | 20 |
FLORIDA OFFENSE/INCIDENT REPORT-SUPPLEMENTAL/CONTINUATION ORIG. SUPP. X FLO 520300 CLEARWATER P.D. AGENCY REPORT NO. 95-29158 Lisa McPherson ORIG. DATE REPORTED: 12/6/95 INCIDENT: AOA/Death Investigation VI WILL PROSECUTE: Y N LOCATION: 644 Pierce Street PAGE 1 OF 20 INVESTIGATOR: Det. Ron Sudler
Today's date is 5/29/96. The time is 12 p.m. This is an interview with Judy Goldsberry-Weber concerning the Lisa McPherson investigation. Present during the interview is myself (Det.Ron Sudler), Det. Carolyn Carrasquillo, Attorney Bob Johnson, and.Ms. Weber.
| Det. Sudler: | For the record, can I get you to state your name, date of birth, and address please? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Judy Goldsberry-Weber. I reside at 503 Cleveland Street, Clearwater. Date of birth is X/46. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. And Judy, are you a staff member with the church? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Yes, I am. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. What is your position there? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | I'm a staff liaison medical officer. |
| Det. Sudler: | So you would be the medical liaison officer for the church now at this time? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Yes, I am still in that position. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. So you took I guess Janice's position? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Janice was my senior at the time. I have had that position since 94. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | And then Janice came on and I became her junior. But we worked together...we both handled it. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. So you worked...you worked under her? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Yes. |
| Det. Sudler: | As an assistant. Okay. How long have you been... you been doing that since 94? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Yes. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Who...who do you work for now? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | I'm the... I'm it. |
| Det. Sudler: | You're the... |
| Det. Sudler: | You're the top...okay...congratulations. |
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| Goldsberry-Weber: | Well, I'm not the top but I'm there. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. When...when did you first...1.. I guess meet or get to know Lisa McPherson. |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Lisa McPherson came into MLO office the summer of 95. She was having a little difficulty sleeping... loss of appetite. And I.found out she was not normally living in this...you know...she'd come down from a different climate. And so I advised her...gave her names of physicians that we use that she could go and have things checked out to see if there was a medical situation that was causing the lack of sleep and lack of appetite...which is one of the functions that I do. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | 0 She came back to me a couple of days later and said that she had gone to see Dr. Decuypere and felt that they found what was her problem. And she was very happy and... and it had been resolved. So then that was the end of my involvement with her. She'd come over a couple of times just to say hello and I saw her later. She had completed a course, which was a major action at the church. And she was very very happy and wanted me to be at the graduation 0 where she was giving a certificate. And I told her I'd be there. And then the next time I saw her was at the hospital. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. So you saw her in the summer of 95. She was.having difficulty sleeping, loss of appetite, and she wasn't used to the climate here. Where...where was she from? Did she tell you? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Umm... in the north part of the east coast or. .or...you know...midwest. I don't...1 can't.. 0 I don't know exactly where except it was a northern |
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| climate and she was not used to the heat. | |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | And that's all I knew. |
| Det. Sudler: | Do you have any medical background? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Yes, I do. I have been a nurse for 35 years... a respiratory therapist...an L.P.N. I spent seven years on the staff of respiratory therapy at the University of Oregon Health Science Center in Portland. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | And then I have spent five years with working with the State and then private duty as living in homes with people who have terminal, illnesses until they expire. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Like Hospice or...? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | The State of Oregon has a service that they contract somebody who...an elderly person...so that they can keep themselves in their home. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. 0 |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Instead of being put in a nursing home. It's a service that the State provides, and so I was a State employee doing that. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Umm...so essentially that's what Lisa came to you for. And you referred her to Dr. Dec¸ypere? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | I gave her a list of three doctors. I didn't know which doctor she came...went to because the people ...when I give them the list of names, then they select the doctor. She came back and told me she had...and Dr. Decuypere was one of them I had given her...she had gone to see. |
| Det. Sudler: | Dr. Decuypere I understand is a chiropractor. Were the other doctors chiropractors too? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | A chiropractor. She's also a nutritionist too. |
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| Det. Sudler: | Okay. |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | And that's primarily what her loss of appetite.. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. 0 |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Because your medical doctors are not trained in nutrition or that. They get thirty minutes of nutrition in their... having worked at the medical 0 school...how I know what they get. They get very limited...so it just happens that Dr. Decuypere is very schooled in it. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | I would send...most of the people I would send to somebody who's got the knowledge. |
| Det. Sudler: | Did Lisa have any other doctors that she went to? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | I have no knowledge of that. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Airight. Were the other two doctors... did they ever see her..you know...did she go to..? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | I have no... |
| Det. Sudler: | To your knowledge? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | I have no knowledge. 0 |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. She just told you that she saw Dr. Decuypere? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Yeah...Uh Huh. |
| Det. Sudler: | And was...and was happy with her? Goldsberry-Weber:.Uh Huh. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Umm...did she tell you that she was progressing with her.. you know...nutrition and health? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Yes. She came back and said Dr. Decuypere had given her a program to help improve her loss of appetite...to help her eat better...and to work with her on her sleeping problem. And... andshe felt that it was being taken care of. |
| Det. Sudler: | Do you know what that program consisted of? |
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| Goldsberry-Weber: | No, I don't. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Lisa didn't discuss that with you? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | No...Uh Uh. |
| Det. Sudler: | What about Dr. Decuypere? Do you have a professional working relationship with her? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Yes, I do. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Umm...do you ever discuss the progress of the people that you refer to any of the physicians? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Sometimes if...if something isn't going right. But if I get a report back that they're doing fine, I don't. |
| Det. Sudler: | Now, I understand that Lisa wasn't a staff member. She was a... a parishioner... |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | She was parishioner. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Umm...is it...is it normal for outside individuals to use the medical liaison officer for this? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Yes, it is. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. So it's open..it's not closea? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | No, it's not closed. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Anybody who...because we're liaison officers... anybody who's got a problem. Most of these people are from outside the area. They don't ,know the doctors. My job is to know which doctors around here have openings...when I can get them in...you know...when their office hours are or whether they can see them. So that's what I do for them is...is give them a list of people and find out what they want... what kind of doctor they want to go to...and then I give them a list of who's available. |
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| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Umm...so you mentioned that Lisa graduated or received a certificate for something significant in the church. When was that? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Umm.. about two weeks before I saw her at the hospital. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. And how was she then? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Oh, very happy and very elated and very bubbly. |
| Det. Sudler: | Had that been her overall demeanor in the months prior to that? Do you know? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Umm...she'd had her ups and down days just like the rest of us. But she was basically the last couple of times I had seen her on the street very very happy and... and... |
| Det. Sudler: | Did she have any unexplained weight loss or... you know... any drastic changes or anything like that? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | I don't know anything. |
| Det. Sudler: | Alright. So at that event she was in a good mood andgood spirits? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Oh, very much so. |
| Det. Sudler: | Did she seemin good physical health? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Uh Huh. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. And then how did you get involved with Lisa at the hospital? And that's Morton Plant Hospital? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Yes. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. How did that come about? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Well, the security paged me that I needed to go to Morton Plant Hospital. |
| Det. Sudler: | Do you remember who? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | No. It was just a male voice. That night I didn't bother...most of the time I can recognize |
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| the voices but it wasn't...we've got a whole O bunch of new ones. But I just picked up. They said that there's...somebody's been in an accident. You need to get there right away. I wasn't even given the name. | |
| Det. Sudler: | What'd they...just page the MLO? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | They paged me specifically. |
| Det. Sudler: | Oh...specifically...okay. |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Uh.. usually, because my post is to go to the hospital and it is my post to go anytime staff or public is in the hospital...1 go. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. 0 |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | So I went. I arrived at the hospital. The girl at Admitting...1 said "I believe there's somebody here that I need to see". And she said "Yeah, I think..."... somebody had been in an accident...had been in an accident. And she said "Oh yeah.. she's back in the other room". I asked her if she was in fast track or the trauma area and could I go back and see her. She said.. I 0 said...she said she was in fast track and I said "1 or..."...you know... "1, 2, or 4?" because I've been.back in there so much that I know which are the rooms. I didn't want to go walking into a room where I shouldn't. |
| Det. Sudler: | Uh Huh. |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | And she said "Back in 2". So I said "Is it okay if I go back and see her?" and she said "Go ahead". So I just opened...pushed the door open and went back and saw Lisa. |
| Det. Sudler: | How was Lisa at that time? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | She was very happy to see me. She recognized me. She was nervous just like most people in an |
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| accident. I didn't see any cuts or bruises or anything. She was...there was a lot of noise and confusion around. And she...we had a...you know a short few minutes to sit and talk and see what was going on because I wanted to see her... see how she was. And she was rational...ummm... you know... other than being confused. I mean... if you have a fender bender, you're...you're... you're not your normal self. You're a little... a little apprehensive but nothing that...she kept saying that she wanted to get away from there... she just wanted to get where she could be where it was quiet. | |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Away from there...the hospital or...? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Away from the hospital...yes. She was...she... and she said "Judy, can you get me out of here?" And that's when I asked her.. I said "Well, how O do you feel?" And she said "I'm fine...1 just want to get away from this hospital". So I said "Okay, I'll go see what the doctors say...what is going on". So I went into the trauma area where the doctors were standing around and asked to see who the doctor was that was taking care' of her because there were three or four of them there... so I didn't know which one. Dr. Lovett happened to be the doctor. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Who is...he...he comes up and says he was taking care of her. I asked him if there was any physical reason, for her to be in the hospital...was he going to admit her for observation or whatever he was going to do. And hesaid...he went into this long song and dance about how she wasn't...said |
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| she needed to be observed and everything. And he had been talking...he introduced me to this gentleman sitting down at the desk who was the psychiatric evaluator. And the guy had said "Well, she doesn't need to be". And so they were fighting between the two. The psychiatric evaluator said she was...didn't meet the hospital's criteria to be put in a psychiatric observation unit. Dr. Lovett was wanting that. And I asked both of them.. I said... ",Does she have a physical reason to be here?"...you know. "Since she doesn't meet your criteria and she...does she have an injury, concussion, or something that would need to be looked at or why?" He said "No". He was just concerned about...and then he tells me it's not normal for a person to run down the street without any clothes on. I said "But does she have a physical reason to be here.she wants to leave this hospital...you're keeping her...can she leave?" They both admitted no, there was no reason to keep her there. Then I said "Fine...she wants to leave... I'm willing..." He says "Well, are you willing to take care of her?" I said' "Yes, we'll take care of her... we'll make sure...but is there any reason for her...you know... is there any physical reason?" "No...no" he says. I said "Fine....can you please start the paperwork to discharge her... I'm willing to take her". He said "Are you willing to?" I said "Yes". So they...1 went back and advised Lisa that they were starting the paperwork and that we would get her where she could leave the hospital as soon as they had |
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| the paperwork finished". At which time she was very very happy to be able to get going. Her wishes were finally being done. So at that point I went out to tell the other staff members who were waiting to see what...what was going on. They weren't allowed back in to talk with Lisa. | |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Who are...who are they? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Umm...let's see...there was Mr. Kartuzinski... Mr. Fontana...and there were several others.. I I just spoke to Mr. Fontana and told him that I was...had started the proceedings to get her to be released so that she would need arrangements to be able to leave and take her wherever. |
| Det. Sudler: | What is Mr. Kartuzinski's role at the church? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | How...how do you mean...he's a staff member. |
| Det. Sudler: | Just a staff member...okay. He didn't work in your office? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | No, he doesn't work in my office. |
| Det. Sudler: | Alright. Did..was he friends with Lisa or...you know... did he have an interest in her or... ? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | I...I believe so...I don't know. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. What about Mr. Fontana? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | What does he do? |
| Det. Sudler: | Yeah. |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | He's in the legal office...Office Of Special Affairs. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | What's the other' man do...Kartuzinski? What's his staff job? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | I...I couldn't tell you. He...he...all I know is he's in the Auditor's...he has...they...they have many different positions there. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | He's an auditor? |
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| Goldsberry-Weber: | I.. I..no.. I don't know. I said he's in that department. He's in another department. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. |
| Det. Sudler: | So you don't know what he does? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | No, I don't. |
| Det. Sudler: | And there were others.. several other staff members present that you...do you know who they were or...? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | I.. I don't know...I didn't see... |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Was Dr. Decuypere there? Goldsberry-Weber Yes, Dr. Decuypere was back there. |
| Det. Sudler: | Anybody else? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Dr. Decuypere and I were back in the examining room. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Was Lisa glad that Dr. Decuypere was there? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Uh Huh. |
| Det. Sudler: | Umm..did she tell you what happened? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | No. The only thing she told me was that she had been in an accident and didn't have any clothes. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | What was she dressed in when you saw her? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | She was in a hospital gown. All of them are in hospital gowns the minute they put them in the examining rooms. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | She had no clothes with her there? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Yeah, they had gotten some clothes for her. Det. Sudler:, Do you know where the clothes came from? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | No. |
| Det. Sudler: | They were brought to the hospital? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | I believe so. I have no knowledge of' who brought them or how they got there. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Umm...did Lisa sign herself out of the hospital that night? |
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| Goldsberry-Weber: | There were papers...yes. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Did anybody else sign her out or witness her signing herself out? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | You mean sign as a witness? |
| Det. Sudler: | Yeah. |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | I have no knowledge of that. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. So you don't know if anybody else signed her out or signed as a witness to her signing herself out? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | I have no knowledge of that. |
| Det. Sudler: | Airight. I...when Lisa signed, were there any possible staff person...because usually you have a witness...especially in something like this. |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | I do know that the nurse came in with some papers. She said she had papers for her ,to sign. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | And that's standard procedures...people that I've...they.have all kinds of papers to sign. |
| Det. Sudler: | Lisa you said didn't have any physical injuries that...that you saw. 0 |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | I didn't see anything. O |
| Det. Sudler: | Airight. Was she crying or upset or..you know? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Well, she was...no, I...she wasn't crying. She was just kind of nervous...just not happy and 0 bubbly. But she was apprehensive. She was wanting to get out of the confusion that was there.... |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Where did she go after the hospital? Do you know? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | I walked as far as..1 walked her out of the hospital and out the Emergency Room. And she |
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| was walking with Mr. Kartuzinski and Dr. Decuypere toward the car. And I went toward another car. | |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Was she able to walk on her own okay? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Yeah. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Did she appear to be having any problems? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | No...no problems walking. |
| Det. Sudler: | So Lisa walked on her own? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Yeah. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. And she was with Mr. Kartuzinski? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Uh Huh. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. And she got in his car or...? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | I don't...1 don't know. |
| Det. Sudler: | You just separated at that point? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | We separated at that point. |
| Det. Sudler: | Were there any discussions with the staff members there about Lisa's condition or... you know...you know...what to do with them? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | The only thing I told Mr. Fontana was she needed to go to a place where she could relax and be quiet and not be disturbed because that's what the doctor had written. And they said they'd take care of that. I told Lisa I'd see her later...not giving the...meaning a designated time...just that I would see her like...I'd see her another time.. |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | No...I didn't see her. I had other... |
| Det. Sudler: | Do you know where she went after that? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | No. |
| Det. Sudler: | Did she move to the church? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | I found out later from my senior that she had been taken to the Ft. Harrison. From Janice when I inquired about Lisa. |
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| Det. Sudler: | How long was that after she was released from the hospital. |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | I had some other things I was doing. Probably two days later when Janice and I could talk. We hadn't seen each other in about two days. I'm not always in the office. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Did...did you see Lisa while she was there at all? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | No...no, I did not. |
| Det. Sudler: | Did you hear any discussion about Lisa's condition? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | No, I haven't...1 have no knowledge. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | The only time I had talked with Janice I had asked her...you know...1 said I promised Lisa to see her and how was she doing. Janice said she was okay... that everything was being taken care of. I said "Just tell Lisa I said hello and when she's better she can come over to see me." |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Okay. When did you find out that Lisa 0...you know...had died. Or did you hear that she was in bad health at anytime? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Actually I had taken another staff member to Morton Plant Hospital and Dr. Lovett told me she had died. |
| Det. Sudler: | How long after that? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Weeks. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | And I came back to the base and asked security, which is a procedure. |
| Det. Sudler: | Janice didn't tell you that Lisa had died? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | No. |
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| Det. Sudler: | Dr. Decuypere or anybody didn't mention that she died? You found out from Dr. Lovett weeks after? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Uh Huh. |
| Det. Sudler: | You were still working under Janice? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | How did that happen? |
| Det. Sudler: | Like I said, I'm not always in the office. I'm at the Hacienda or taking people to doctor's appointments and Janice is there covering and might be studying when I cover her. And we're in and out. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Did you speak to Janice about Lisa after Dr. Lovett told you? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | No, I...the orders are I talk to security. And then there was...1 talked to Mr. Johnson about it. |
| Det. Sudler: | It just seems like it would be logical for somebody...you know...if you went to their graduation you'd have an interest in if they died or not..you know. Were you upset by that that they didn't tell you? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Yes. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Why were there orders not to talk about it? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | I don't know. It's just that normally we just don't discuss a lot of that. |
| Det. Sudler: | You weren't invited to her funeral or anything like that? O |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | I didn't know. |
| Det. Sudler: | Alright., Umm... |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | How did you happen to go from those'positions you had to working with the staff? It seems like those positions outside would be high paying positions. |
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| Goldsberry-Weber: | Yes, they were very...very lucrative positions. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | What brought ,you to where you're at now? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Wanting to help a little more. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Within the church? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Within the church. |
| Det. Sudler: | We had talked to several individuals in this case. And again we're trying to...you know... develop a background basically about Lisa's health and mental condition and her physical health...you know...during the weeks...you know...prior to her death. Basically...you know..what...what she was thinking...what she was going through at the time. And in some of our interviews, we were told that the church .you know...doesn't feel there's a needfor...you know...psychiatric involvement...you know... in parishioner's lives...whatever...the church can handle those issues. Is that correct or...? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Yes. |
| Det. Sudler: | You'know...it was obvious that Lisa had some type of I guess breakdown following her accident that night. Are you aware or any other...you know factors in her life that would've gotten, her to...you know... disrobing and walking naked? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | No, I have no. .no knowledge of that. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. So you don't know what press..pressure she was under in her work or relationships or anything like that? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | No, I have no knowledge. |
| Det. Sudler: | When somebody would...let's say...have a nervous breakdown or breakdown that Lisa would have had, in the State of Florida we have a Baker Act Law to use at that time...law enforcement or health |
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| care professionals. You know...I understand that if the church didn't believe that she met the criteria, she wouldn't be...you know...ready for an involuntary...you know... admission into the hospital. But does the church have anything that they would do...any program or...? | |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | What we do is...if we know somebody's got a physical problem, part of that is to liaison with a medical doctor for a full medical checkup a full physical workup so we can see if there's a physical cause. There usually is a physical cause to this...what caused it. So what we would normally have to do if we know that there's somebody having problems...my part is to get them to a medical doctor for a full workup...blood tests...X-Rays...whatever is needed. And that's what we do instead of a psychiatric...is we find a medical doctor and do a very thorough workup. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Did Lisa have that? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | I have no knowledge because my senior was put on the case. I have no knowledge. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. So you don't know if. she saw any physicians for that? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | No. My involvement ended when I left the hospital. 0 |
| Det. Sudler: | Are there any...you know...counseling or mental O health programs that the church does outside of the.. you know...mental health care professionals? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | I...I'm not involved. All I do is I make sure that they get to a physical doctor. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. We had information that sometimes... |
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| SIDE TWO OF TAPE | |
| Det. Sudler: | Don't say anything yet. We'll get this tape recorder going here again. Alright. We were talking about... |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | That would come into Mr. Kartuzinski... could give you that information. That is more his expertise in that...that part of it. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Would there be...is there a...a program to address that...you know...like a psychiatrist would have something that they would do. |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | He...he would...he would know more. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. He'd know more about that? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Uh Huh. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | It'd be like asking a traffic cop to handle an investigation for murder. You'd be turned over to a detective. I just...I brought people to the... |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Alright. Was...was Lisa referred to Mr. Kartuzinski for any program you know of? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | I don't know who. That's...that's another person. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | I just handle the medical body and what they |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. So the...the body, not the mind? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Exactly. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Umm...have you heard...I mean is there, are there programs out there that...that... |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | There is? |
| Det. Sudler: | There is...okay. So she could get counseling from a minister or something like that as |
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| opposed to going to a psychiatrist and.. | |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Exactly. That's usually what we do. |
| Det. Sudler: | Airight. Umm...so that rundown would be part of that to? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | I don't know exactly which thing... |
| Det. Sudler: | Don't know? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | But I do know that there would've been a counselor or auditor...we use the term auditor rather than counselor. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay, auditor. |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | Would try to help her and they would know exactly what...what she needed help with. |
| Det. Sudler: | Umm...did Lisa ever confide in you about any problem that she was having with relationships or anything that you're aware of? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | No. Basically when...you know...when I saw her in the summertime..that's about the only time we really talked on that. And she'd come down to relax and down to where people cared about her and helped her put herself back together. She'd been having trouble sleeping and...and she had some problems where she was living and work. I knew she was having problems but she was coming down here and they were being taken care of. She was seeing her auditor and that..that part...that's the only time she came back. That's why I said she came back a couple of times all happy and bubbly...that these problems had been worked out and she felt her life was back together. She was very very happy about things that were going on. But it was kind of a shock to just see her kind of just...you know. she was nervous but I wouldn't say she was |
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| suicidal or despondent. She just wanted to get out of the confusion of the hospital and get back...she kept saying "Just get me out of here where I can get away and relax...get back". | |
| Det. Sudler: | Did she have any problems with drugs or alcohol? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | That I had no knowledge of. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Alright. Umm...do you know anybody that would be particularly close to her that would know more about her personal life or her physical or mental health? |
| Goldsberry-Weber: | No. I have no knowledge of that. |
| Det. Sudler: | Alright. Det. Carrasquillo? |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | I don't have anything. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Thank you very much. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Thank you. |
| Det. Sudler: | I'm gonna go ahead and conclude the interview. The time is now 12:35 p.m. |
OFC. REPORTING: Det. Ron Sudler/elg ID NO: 608 DATE:.5/29/96 CASE STATUS: Active EXCEPTION TYPE: _______ DATE CLEARED:____________ CLEARANCE TYPE ______ 1. Extradition Declined 1. Arrest 2. AR of Prim. Offense, Secondary Offense. w/o Pros Adult ____Juv 3. Deathof Offender. 5. Prosecution Decl Exceptional. 4. V/W Refused to Cooperate 6. Juv./No Custody Unfounded. ~. REVIEWING:. DATE:__________ SA INFO: ____________ 20