Statement - Rita Boykin

Date:March 18, 1997




TAKEN BY: State of Florida
BEFORE: Sheryl N. Williams,
CSR, CP, RPR, CM, Notary Public, State of Florida at large.

DATE: March 18, 1997
PLACE: Office of State Attorney, 
Criminal Courts Complex, Clearwater, Florida.

TAMPA - 224-9500


APPEARANCES: MR ï MARK MCGARRY, Assistant State Attorney Attorney for State of Florida DET. SGT. WAYNE C. ANDREWS city of Clearwater Clearwater Police Department criminal Investigations Division Crimes Against Persons Unit /645 Pierce Street Clearwater, Florida 34616

MR. ALLAN "LEE" STROPE Special Agent Florida Department of Law Enforcement Clearwater Field Office 28870 U.S. Highway 19, Suite 200 Clearwater, Florida 34621

MR. JOHN F. LAURO, P.A. Suite 3950 Barnett Plaza 101 East Kennedy Boulevard Tampa, Florida 33602 Attorney for Rita Boykin


MR. LAURO: Mark, before we get started, let me just put on the record that my name is John Lauro and I represent Ms. Boykin. Ms. Boykin is testifying today pursuant to a subpoena that has been issued by the State Attorney's Office, and she would otheri~ise assert her constitutional protections but for this ~ubpoena and, therefore, she, I believe, is afforded all the protections of Florida law pursuant to that subpoena and she is testifying under Florida law in accordance with the subpoena. Thank you. RITA BOYKIN the witness herein, being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:


Q. All right, we will begin. Rita, my name is Mark McGarry. I am a prosecutor, and the reason we have you here is I want to talk to you a little bit about the period in your life that was in '95, during November and December, involving a person by the name of Lisa McPherson. Are you familiar with her?

A. Yes, I am.

Q. Let's, get some background, if we could, and start out with, what is your date of birth?


A. X, 1952.

Q. And where were you born?

A. X, California.

Q. And how long have you lived in Clearwater?

A. A year and a half.

Q. Where did you come from before that.

A. I was living previously in New York.

Q. Is that your given name or is that a married name?

A. It's a married name.

Q. And what was your given name?

A. X.

Q. Are you divorced?

A. I was divorced in New York.

Q. What was your husband's name?

A. Steve Boykin.

Q. Does he live in Clearwater?

A. No, he is living in New York right now.

Q. All right. Is he also a member of the Church?

A. Yes, he is.

Q. And why did you come to Clearwater?

A. I came here for training. I was -- I worked for the Church here in Clearwater called Flag, but I was in New York. I came down for some training.

Q. All right, for --


A. For job enhancement.

Q. Well, when did you first become involved in the Church?

A. April of '85.

Q. Okay, and where was that, in New York or California?

A. It was in South Criss (phonetic), California.

Q. And at some point, then, I guess it's almost over ten years that you became a staff member of the Church?

A. Almost immediately.

Q. In what capacity was that?

A. There was a guy I met at South Criss. That was where I first found out about Scientology, and I began volunteering in the type of work I am doing right now, and before I become a staff member there a few months later -- it had been maybe a year and a few months, I joined the Church in LA.

Q. Okay, what was your capacity? What did you do?

A. The job title was services officer and what we did is we worked with -- helped people in that area, like the eastern part of the United States, and I came down to this church for additional services, so I did all sorts of things in that capacity.


Q. All right, what brought you to Clearwater?

A. I came down for some additional training.

Q. Okay. Do you remember what month that was?

A. It was Thanksgiving Day.

Q. Of what year?

A. It was last year?

MR. LAURO: Well, I think --

A. Actually, it was two years.


Q. This is November of '95 we are talking about now, and I assume you are the author of some of these documents we are going to discuss.

A. Thanksgiving.

Q. Okay, so you are saying you came Thanksgiving of 1995?

A. Yes.

Q. That was the first day you set foot in Clearwater?

A. Well, at this time. I have been here before.

Q. I mean for this duration.

A. Yes, yes.

Q. That would have been the 23rd. All right, then you indicated that was for additional services here?

A. Yes.


Q. Can you elaborate on that?

A. Oh, I was just getting more personal advancement, you know. Part of the compensation of the work is to get specialized church services for ourselves and I was here to do that.

Q. I got you. Any other staff duties at all, other than your personal --

A. For that period of time, I was just going to get some training and do it and go back to New York.

Q. I got you. Did you know anybody down here?

A. I knew many people, telephonic, you know, ï people that were over the phone, because I talked to them on my job up in New York. There were some staff members here that had been up to New York.

Q. That you know?

A. Yes.

Q. Was that in the Flag building, the Fort Harrison building or was that in one of the other --

A. It was in the apartment complex where the staff met.

Q. I got you. So you live by yourself?

A. I have roommates. I have an apartment and roommates that are also staff members.

Q. How many?

A. Three.


Q. Have they been the same roommates all along?

A. No, they haven't.

Q. Who were your roommates back in November '95?

A. Well --

Q. ï If you can remember.

A. A girl named Alice. Well, I can picture the other girl. I think her first name is Margaret (phonetic), and two other roommates who I don't remember right now. (Whereupon a discussion was held off the record).


Q. Are they still there?

A. Yeah, they are. Her name is Angie Peterson.

Q. Did any of these girls have any contact with Lisa?

A. No.

Q. Are you living in the same apartment that you moved into the very first time?

A. I am in the same apartment again, but I had moved out of there at that time.

Q. Technically, in November of '95, you were not a staff member?

A. Oh, yeah.

Q. You were a staff member of the Church, but you were receiving additional training and counseling?


A. Yes.

Q. Is there a person in November of '95 that' would be your counselor or be your supervisor or be your minister? What term am I looking for here?

MR. ANDREWS: Senior?

A. Right. Senior/would have been Bo Wennberg. Bo, B 0; Wennberg, W E N N B E R G.


Q. Is he still around?

A. Yes, he is.

Q. Okay, is he still your senior?

A. No, he is not.

Q. Who is your senior now?

A. Now it' s Dave Houghton, H 0 U G H T 0 N.

Q. Any in between?

A. No.

Q. Going on to Lisa, what brought you in contact with Lisa?

A. A person who was trying to, you know, like, organize people to take care of her.

Q. Who was that? '

A. His name was Oliver Jarrot. Spelled like Oliver, and the last name, J A R R 0 T. ï '

Q. And what was his title or responsibilities at the Flag?


A. The title was HC Cope Officer (phonetic), but in his capacity at that time, he would get people organized together.

Q. Was that a special assignment that he was charged with or is that something he does with people that are

A. It was a special assignment, very unusual circumstance, and to simply create -- you know, get together people to take care of her. There was nothing already existing.

Q. Does he have an expertise, meaning does he have any medical training, that you are aware of?

A. No. He's an administrator. Basically he deals with personnel.

Q. So when did you have contact with him?

A. Just briefly, and he said, "Rita, I need your help."

Q. Obviously after Thanksgiving, the 23rd of November?

MR. LAURO: Could it have been Thanksgiving Day?

A. I am honestly not sure. Thanksgiving Day or the day after. Possibly after that. I am not sure.


Q. All right. Where was this and what did he



A. I think we were in his general office area. There were I think there probably would have been a few other people, but not necessarily involved in our conversation.

Q. And what was that conversation?

A. "I need your help. Go see Arthur, Arthur Baxter."

Q. Who is he?

A. He was the head of security at that point.

Q. Is he still there?

A. He is in security. He is not in charge anymore.

Q. Who is?

A. I believe Paul Kellerhous.

Q. Paul Kellerhous. So you went and saw Arthur Baxter?

A. Yes.

Q. And do you remember when that was?

A. Again, I am not sure.

Q. Okay.

A. It was after Thanksgiving Day, within a couple of days.

Q. All right, and what was that conversation about?


A. He told me there is this lady named Lisa McPherson. This is not his exact words.

Q. Okay, that's fair enough.

A. He said she is a very nice girl. He said, "But she is not herself at all. We need to help her get through a crisis." He said that -- he just started telling me basically how she was behaving. He said, you know, she is, like, extremely violent. He said, "Don't, under any circumstances, relax your guard with her. Don't let her get her fingernails into you." He said, "She is a great gal, but right now she is not that way at all. You have to really, really watch yourself."

Q. Were you briefed on the circumstances of her entering the hospital to begin with?

A. No, I did find out about that, but I am not really sure, I don't believe. ï

Q. Okay. Did he tell you who else was going to be a member of this watch team? Is that what this was called, a watch?

A. Well, the term watch can be used for almost ï any job you are assigned to. Your watch is this period of time you are supposed to be doing what you are doing.

Q. Kind of a Naval term?


A. Yeah, really.

Q. Well, I read that ruling.

A. There are other definitions that doesn't apply. The watch is the term, your responsibility for that period of time.

Q. Okay. I am not sure you answered the question. The people that you -- did you meet the people you were involved with?

A. I am not sure. No, initially, no, definitely not initially.

Q. Were you provided some type of schedule, I guess, that would have your name on it for a time frame? This is something I created (indicating).

A. To begin with, no. It was a very sad situation, like a very difficult thing to come up and hand to me, and when I first saw her, she was, like, extremely violent, a number of people in the room. It had turned out to be three of us taking care of her.

Q. So there were three people that rotated the care-taking?

A. Yes.

Q. And those 'three people are?

A. Myself, Sylvia. I remember her name, Sylvia DeLavaga. Capital D E, capita]. L A V A G

A. There were four of us. A woman whose name is Heather, last


name is Pietzold. P I E T Z 0 L D.

MR. ANDREWS: What was that last name?

A. Current last name is Pietzold. P I E P Z 0 L D.

MR. STROPE: I can't hear you.

MR. MCGARRY: I apologize for the noise. They are constructing in this building next to us.



MR. STROPE: Thank you.

A. And then there was Laura Arrunado. I am not positive of the spelling of the last name.


A. Yeah.


Q. Now, was Valerie part of this?

A. Not at the end. In the beginning she was. I am not even sure that Valerie and I were there at the same time.

Q. Her last name?

A. Demange.

Q. So when you picked it up, it was you, Sylvia, Heather and Laura?

A. That's what it settled down to. When I first walked in, there were a number of people there. Should


I give you their names?

Q. Sure.

A. Barbro, B A R B R 0, Wennberg.


A. Yeah. I believe Joan Stevens was there at that time. Heather was either there or left,/ Heather Pietzold, P I E T Z 0 L D.

Q. Patricia?

A. Patricia?

Q. Stracener.

A. Oh, I don't remember her. I was brought in there by a senior. She might have been there. I just don't remember. I didn't even know her and I don't remember her.

Q. How about Emma?

A. I don't think Emma was there. You are talking about Emma Schermerhorn?

Q. Yes.

A. I don't think she was there.

Q. Okay. So you indicated the first day that you saw Lisa, there was a lot of people around?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you remember what day that was?

A. No.

Q. Thanksgiving is obviously a Thursday, so we


are probably coming up on the weekend.

A. I don't remember exactly. It was within a couple of days of Thanksgiving though.

Q. Okay. And what were the circumstances of that setting? How did you come to be in that room?

A. Well, I came becausef I was somebody who could be talked out of what I was there to do and go help with something, you know --

Q. So you were talked out of your personal enrichment and into this?

A. Yes. All of which was, "Rita I need your help."

Q. All right.

A. "Go talk to Arthur. He will tell you what is happening."

Q. Back to your first meeting of Lisa and everybody that was in the room, was that during the day or nighttime or what?

A. It was during the day. It was bright, sunny. I don't know what time of day.

Q. Where was the room?

A. At the back of the Fort Harrison, in the area referred to as the cabana.

Q. What floor was that?

A. The first floor.


Q. First floor?

A. Ground level.

Q. Ground level, okay. Do you remember what room it was? The third to the right, second to the right?

A. Well, homing down the corridor in the Fort Harrison, you know, the external corridor, you turn right and it was the first room.

Q. Okay.

A. It was one seventy-five, one seventy-eight.

Q. Was that a single-occupancy room?

A. It had two double beds in it.

Q. Okay. When you arrived, who was in the room?

A. Well, Lisa, plus the people I mentioned.

Q. That was Joan and Barbro?

A. And Heather.

Q. Sylvia?

A. I don't remember Sylvia being there.

Q. Okay. What was the purpose of that?

A. Well, there was I believe it was Joan Sullivan who was supposed to be at the door once I arrived. See, all of these people had jobs they were supposed to be doing. They just kind of dropped everything to help Lisa, and one by one, Oliver Jarrot was trying to find people who could be there on a


stable basis, instead of just coming and going.

Q. Right.

A. So there were two beds in the room, you know, double beds, and one across the room. Lisa was on that bed, with perpetual extreme motion on her bed, her bed was rocking all the time, and she was (indicating), and she would get her fingernails in herself and face (indicating), and people were taking her hands of f her, you know (indicating), trying to minimize the harm.

Q. And this first contact that you had with Lisa, were there any signs, that you observed, of her being an irrational person?

A. Irrational? She was like --

Q. Did she know where she was?

A. I honestly don't know.

Q. All I can ask is what you know and if --

A. She wasn't saying anything that I could recognize.

Q. She wasn't making complete sentences?

A. No.

Q. Did that change?

A. No string of words like I could make any sense out of, that had anything to do with the environment or what she was doing or what she wanted or anything.


Q. Okay, from your first observation of her, then, you would have to describe her as being somewhat psychotic?

MR. LAURO: Hold on.

MR. MCGARRY: I am not asking for a medical opinion.

MR. LAURO: That's a medical word that --


Q. All right, let me ask it this way, from what you observed, is there anything that you could tell was physically wrong with her?

A. Well, because of what she had been doing, you know, she looked banged up, scratched, scratches on her face, her arms, her legs. Other people there got gouged marks on their hands because they didn't get away fast enough. I mean, she looked a mess.

Q. So what you were observing was a mental situation? Can you testify to that?

MR. LAURO: I think she has testified to mental and physical, but if the question is what the mental impressions were, you can certainly describe that, what you saw.

A. In my viewpoint?

MR. LAURO: Yeah.



Q. I am just asking for your opinion. I am not asking --

MR. LAURO: It's not an opinion, he is asking for your observations.

A. Well, just constantly picking, moving, grabbing (indicating), flailing, kicking, sometimes like grinding her head into the pillow. Like, Barbro had a pillow. She would try to get it under her face, because she was just grinding her face into it, the pillow, you know.


Q. How were the care-givers and yourself coping with this, dealing with this, if you were?

A. Well, speaking for myself --

Q. And as well as your observations of the people around you.

A. I was kind of horrified by what was going on. I had never seen anything like that. It was clear to me that we had to, you know, interfere with her attempts to hurt herself and hurt us. She was, like, intent on digging in those fingernails and gouging at us and --

Q. Did you have

MR. LAURO: Hold on. I am sorry, I know


you are trying to go on, but several times she has ï - tried to complete a sentence and you are interrupting her. Go ahead.

A. I lost track.


Q. The fingernails.

A. She was like what I saw about her behavior, how she was behaving?

Q. Yes.

A. Extremely violent, like bent on -- she seemed like determined to do harm to herself and us and the physical objects in the room. Right before I arrived, everything but the beds and a dresser had been moved out of the area, a mirror taken off the back of the wall, which was already broken, the chandelier was taken down, because there was a period of time she would fall, and she could get her arms around (indicating) anything breakable, anything sharp. Anything that could be used to hurt someone or herself was taken out; no cords, no cable, no electrical equipment, nothing.

Q. All right. Did you have any conversations with the other care-givers that were there that first day you were there that made you think this was the type of behavior that had gone on the previous week she


was there?

A. Actually, we didn't have any conversations. We really felt she had enough going on without having conversations around her and --

Q. Was there a reason for that?

MR. LAURO: Mark, I am sorry, again, I think she is trying to finish a sentence. You just need to let her finish.

A. We felt that if we had conversations around her, talking about the kids and the dogs or what was on TV or something like that, it would just give her more to be upset about, so we didn't talk. We might whisper something to each other or use sign language, like when she had someone -- I don't remember which person it was, like, snapping my finger (indicating) to get the person's attention to help get her loose from what she was holding onto, but, basically, you know, we didn't just jabber, by any means. We just felt like it would be that much more stuff that she didn't need to hear.


Q. Okay, my question is, by the signs, is that something you came up with or is that something that you were briefed on or is the normal course of the religion that you practice, that somebody is going


through an episode like this, that that's the way it's handled?

A. There is a dianetics belief that if somebody is hurt or sick, you don't talk around them, we just let them --

Q. That's basically my question.

A. That's the way it is.

Q. Was that practiced, then, generally, around Lisa?

A. Yeah.

Q. Most of the time you were there?

A. Yes.

Q. All the time you were there?

A. One time I spoke to her, because she -- should I tell you about it?

Q. Sure.

A. This was after many days of me being with her. She had been asleep. She was on this bed over here, and I was sitting on this bed right here (indicating), and she had her back a little bit to me, and she stretched her arm out to me (indicating), looked at me, and said something like, "You are being so good to me and I don't even know what your name is," and I went over and I took her hand and I told her what my name was, and at the moment she spoke was so, you


know -- you know, it was like she was so there, you know, so lucid, understanding, that I thought she was okay. I thought she was all right now. I went end, took her hand and spoke to. her, and I don't know what she did next, but I instantly realized she was not okay, that she went right back to where she was!

Q. Do you remember what day that was?

A. I don't. It took me a long time to even remember what she said to me. I just know there had been a very positive turn of events. I was really excited about it.

Q. All right, moving on. After the first meeting you had when there were numerous people there, was there a schedule worked out with you and the other girls?

A. Yeah, I think it took a few days to get that worked out. In fact, when we found these people that could be there, away from there job for awhile -- I was easy. I was there. I was available.

Q. I take it Lisa was never left by herself?

A. No. ï

Q. Not at all?

A. No.

Q. Was it usually one or more girls in the room?

A. That period of time that she was really,

ï ' 25 really violent, it was several, three or four of us. Then when she settled down, there were two of us always, and I would step outside the door I smoke, so I would go outside to have a cigarette, and we just relieved each other, you know, for fifteen, twenty minutes at a time, but never for long, any further away than to run next-door.

Q. Who was in charge of planning her diet?

A. I don't know. I mean, I knew she wasn't eating. I can tell you what I did. I was just -- I had some protein powder in my purse, so I started -- I got some bananas and mashed them and put the protein powder in it and started feeding her that, because she wasn't eating. They were bringing food from the dining room, that I remember, like a sandwich or something for lunch and eggs for breakfast, and she wouldn't chew it and swallow it, so it was, like, useless. You could put it in her mouth and she just wouldn't eat it, she would spit it out, so I got -- mashed the bananas and put the protein powder in it and started feeding it to her, and she liked bananas, she really liked that, so she ate that and she got some protein. '

Q. Did she receive any medicine, that you are aware of?


A. Yeah. They were sleeping pills. I don't know. She was staying awake almost always.

Q. Who administered those?

A. I did, Laura probably had, and Heather, possibly. They were, like, items from the health food store that people used to help them sleep, and I had a product -- it's something that helps a person relax.

Q. Was there any conventional medicine that was administered? When I say conventional, something that wasn't --

A. You mean like a prescription? Not to my knowledge. I didn't have anything. There was another thing, a more common thing that Scientologists use to relax or sleep, to decrease muscle attention, and it's called Cal-Mag (phonetic), calcium magnesium. It's just a drink.

Q. How about chloral hydrate, are you familiar with that?

A. I am familiar with the name. I honestly don't know exactly what it is.

Q. Were you ever present when that was ï administered to. her?

A. , I am not sure what it is, if it's a tablet or what.

MR. LAURO: No, I think the question Mr.


.McGarry asked, were you ever present when it was given or did you ever give it to her?

A. I am not sure what it is. There was a white, a clear gel capsule that I remember. I don't know if that was given.


A. I don't know.

Q. Who gave that to her, if you know?

A. I don't know. I think I might have given her some.

Q. Going on with that item you described, did that come from a bottle or an individual pill or did somebody give you a prescription, that you know of?

A. That wasn't a prescription. It was a little plastic bottle, like vitamins.

Q. Of the people that you named, are you aware of anybody that had medical training?

A. I think Laura had been a nurse or something.

Q. Did you ever have any conversation with her about that?

A. I don't think so. I think other people said it to me.

Q. Go ahead.

A. She was another person that was brand new to


me at that time, until I got to know her later. I wasn't terribly aware of her at that time. Once it settled down to four people, she was one that relieved me, so we would see each other in passing. I didn't really know her.

Q. Did she speak English?

A. Yes.

Q. She does?

A. Yes.

Q. Janis Johnson, did you ever meet her?

A. Oh, yeah.

Q. Okay, did she --

A. At that point she was also pretty new to me, but I talked to her over the phone.

Q. Did you ever see her with Lisa?

A. After it settled down to the basic routine people, yeah, she would come in. I think I would see her a couple of times a night. I didn't really talk to her. ,

Q. How long would she stay when she visited?

A. Ten, fifteen minutes. ï ï '

Q. To the best of your observation with Lisa, did she ever call you by name or anyone?

A. No, never called me by name or anything. The episode I told you about when she thanked me for '


being so good to her, that's the only time I ever heard her say a sentence that made any sense or that I could make any sense out of. I never heard her call anybody by name or her acknowledge my presence. Sometimes she would make eye contact with you, like she really saw you.

Q. Did you ever see Janis administer any medical treatment to her?

MR. LAURO: Wait, I am not sure on any medical treatment. Did you ever see Janis do anything to Lisa?

A. Well, one time when I couldn't get Lisa to swallow, wouldn't take any of her sleeping pills, Janis came on and helped. This was when Janis came on to -- she wouldn't go to sleep, you know, but fifteen, twenty minutes, maybe an hour, and then it was just, you know, complete activity and scratching at herself and all this stuff (indicating). I knew she had to sleep, so Janis helped with that, and then she went to sleep really easily, whereas I couldn't get her to.


Q. Records were kept?

A. Yeah.

Q. Okay, can you elaborate how that was



A. I know that every time I went out, I would just write down what happened, how long she had slept, any particular meeting, how much I had been able to get her to eat or to drink. I would just go in the room next-door, which was a housekeeping, you know, area that we just kind of took over, and would write down what occurred.

Q. Was this -- go ahead.

A. Arid then I would just leave it there and go back and write on it every time I would come in.

Q. Okay, did you do this at somebody's direction or --

A. Just my own direction.

Q. Did anybody else do that?

A. I would think that everybody. I would assume that everybody did. It's just kind of a routine thing with us, to let other people know what is happening.

Q. If you had to describe somebody that was in charge of this, for lack of better terms, watch, during this period of time, who was in charge?

A. I tell you, the people I turned to for help were Alain Kartuzinski and Janis Johnson.

Q. And this Oliver?

A. Oliver.


Q. Is he out of it at this point?

A. That's correct, to my knowledge, that's correct. I never saw him in the room.

Q. All right, did Lisa have who was Lisa's senior?

A. Well, she wasn't a seeded (phonetic) member - - she worked for I am pretty sure she worked for --

Q. Go back to your first word. What was it?

A. She was not a seated (phonetic) member, so she didn't necessarily -- she didn't have the same structure that we have.

Q. Okay. Did she have a minister?

A. She would have, but I don't know who it was. I never knew her before this period of time.

Q. Did she have an auditor?

A. She would have, but I don't know who it was.

Q. Are you aware of whether or not somebody could even participate in any counseling or auditing under the circumstances that she was in?

A. No, not at all. You really do have to participate. It's not something that is done to you. I mean, you have to be completely involved in it.

Q. Who is the person that gathered up the reports after they were written?

A. I actually don't know. I would just leave


mine there. I would start a new one at the beginning of my shift every day. After sixteen hours, you were just ready to go to bed.

Q. So your shift was --

A. Sixteen hours.

Q. Sixteen hours?

A. Yes.

Q. All right, I am going to start referring to these things and I have got a copy. I have to clear up some terminology. What if one of these was written to SNRC/S, what is that?

A. SNR stands for senior and CS stands for case supervisor, and that would be Alain Kartuzinski.

Q. So these reports are entitled to go to him?

A. Yeah.

MR. LAURO: Is it Elaine?

A. Alain,ALAIN.


Q. Okay, who is the MED., office of OF., OFF. manager?

A. It could be medical office manager. That would be Janis, except that's the wrong title. It's medical liaison office.

Q. Okay, the best of your recollection, how many sixteen-hour shifts would you put in after you


met with her?

A. I would say it was like a blur. I would say a minimum of three. I am not sure. A minimum of three.

Q. And you indicated previously that you were with somebody?

A. Right.

Q. And in shifts of two people?

A. Yes.

Q. I know we are going back, but as best as you can, who would have been your companion? Was it different every day?

A. It was the same. I know definitely Sylvia, or most of the time. Like, we were there at the same hours.

Q. You indicated she is still there?

A. Sylvia, no, she is not.

Q. , She left? Where is she?

A. I believe she is in Mexico, City of Mexico.

Q. So Laura and her both left?

A. Urn-hum.

Q. Do you know why she left?

A. Sylvia -- there were two different reasons for each of them, or a different reason for each. Sylvia needed to have a recess, so she went back to her

country, and couldn't handle it, so she stayed there and is working in a seated (phonetic) unit there. Laura had a teenage son who was unhappy here, and she needed to go home, take him home. She thought she could help him with his father, and nothing worked. It didn't work. He is a teenager, so she stayed there.

Q. Is there a church in Mexico City, as well?

A. Yes.

Q. Before we get to these things, if Lisa -- you say every now and then she would have episodes where she would -- if she were to get up and try and walk out of that room, what would happen? Did she ever do that?

A. No, she didn't.

Q. She never got up?,

A. She would get up and walk around, but she never went to the door.

Q. Okay, and obviously, because you have indicated she only had one sentence of intelligent conversation with you in your three- or four-day shift with her, she never indicated one way or another whether she wanted to be there or wanted to be somewhere else, to you?

A. Well, other than -- other than at times she just woke up and thanked me for taking care of her, for being so good to her. I forget exactly what she said.


That, to me, indicated thank you for doing this, you know.

Q. Okay. Maybe I- will come over there and I will show you some documents that we have got. They were provided to me by some of the lawyers that represent the Church. Do you recognize that handwriting there (indicating)?

A. No, I don't. Maybe it's signed. It's by somebody whose English is a second language, but I am not sure who.

MR. LAURO: Mark, do you want to identify for the record? It's number Five six. MR ï MCGARRY: Urn-hum.


Q. Okay, five seven (indicating).

A. Yeah. Oh, this is from the medical office manager. I guess that would be Laura that --

MR. LAURO: Well, don't guess. You have to not speculate.

MR. McGarry is looking for your best recollection.

A. I don't know. I am not for sure. ' - -


Q. All right, one five eight (indicating)?

A. No, I haven't seen it before.

Q. And one five nine (indicating) is a



A. Yeah.

Q. One six zero (indicating), have you ever seen that?

A. No. This one is signed (indicating), Suzanna Reich. REICH.

MR. LAURO: That's one three six, correct?


Q. Now, was she on another watch other than yours? ï

A. Yeah. I knew her name, but I didn't know her. -

Q. Is this your handwriting (indicating)?

A. No.

Q. That's one three eight. Okay, this is from Valerie (indicating)?

A. Right.

Q. This is not numbered at the bottom, but it's labeled. It's not numbered at the bottom. It was cut off.

MR. LAURO: It may be one thirty-nine. I am not sure. .


Q. Yeah, because there is one forty. Do you


recognize that handwriting (indicating)?

A. No.

Q. That's one four one. Do you recognize the handwriting?

A. No.

Q. . One four two. That's a bad copy. Can you recognize that (indicating)?

A. Is the word staff followed by something illegible.

Q. That's not your handwriting (indicating)?

A. No.

MR. ANDREWS: Could that be staff Chapman.


Q. 'Staff Chapman?

A. Oh, yeah. That's my writing (indicating).

Q. That's yours? This is dated November 26.

A. Yes.

Q. This one -- where are the -- can you tell where in this week this documentation would have come from, as far as your first, second, third, fourth,' fifth watch, if you know?

A. I don't know. The fact that it says, "I want to correct the data regarding what Lisa actually ate today," is not the first one, but that's --


Q. This was written back on November 26?

A. Yeah.

Q. So if you said I want to correct the date --

A. The data.

Q. The data regarding what Lisa actually ate today, there would be another report besides this one?

A. Yes. I mean, it seems that way to me.

Q. Okay.

A. I don't know, maybe it was -- I told somebody that.

Q. This also describes some of the stuff you were talking about in document one forty-five about how the bananas -- having a hard time eating?

A. Yes, the protein powder, started getting protein shakes. I wanted to get something into her.

Q. Who was paying for her meals?

A. I believe she was herself.

Q. How does that work if she was?

A. Well, I guess it's a hotel and a religious retreat, and they come and pay for their hotel room and eat in the restaurant.

Q. So she had an account?

A. Yeah, probably.

Q. If you know.

A. I don't know. Probably.


Q. What does that mean (indicating)?

A. It's a triangle, a very basic symbol, and it stands for a communication. It's a Scientology -- like data that a person can use, communication, agreement to have a better understanding of friendship of people. ï

Q. Is this your handwriting (indicating)?

A. I think so. ï

Q. This is paper one forty-six. I guess that was just the tail end of this one here (indicating).

MR. LAURO: Or could that have been a cover sheet, one forty-six?

A. I don't remember doing that.


Q. Okay. This is one forty-seven (indicating).

A. ' Yeah.

Q. Do you recognize this one here (indicating)?

MR. LAURO: Two sixteen.

A. Yeah. Yes, to me. That would be Emma. She wrote that. '


Q. This is two fifteen -- no, it looks like we have another one.

MR. LAURO: One forty-eight.



Q. For the purpose of the record, this document -is describing some tablets, gel tablets?

A. Capsules, two little white capsules.

Q. Is this you also (indicating)?

A. Yep.

MR. LAURO: That's unmarked.


Q. It looks like a continuation of the previous one. Well, it might be -- it looks like another one.

MR. LAURO: But the document begins up on top with Dear Sir. It looks like nine p.m. to one a.m.


Q. This document (indicating)?

A. No.

Q. Is this you also (indicating)?

A. Urn-hum.

Q. Do you recognize this, two fourteen?

A. I have seen her (indicating). Q (Indicating)? ' . '

A. That's my writing.

Q. That's a continuation of that one (indicating)?

A. Oh, it looks like that is a continuation of


this, but I never signed it.

Q. This one also (indicating)?

A. I mean it could be a continuation.

MR. LAURO: I think we should identify this. One fifty-four.

MR. MCGARRY: One fifty-four, finishes up on one fifty-five.


Q. Who is Alice Cangrondel?

A. I didn't even know her. I don't know. I didn't know.

Q. Were you aware of her being involved in the watch?

A. No, I never saw her there.

Q. In one of your notes here, I think it's on one forty-five, you wrote that she was very in PT plus interested in rest. What does that mean?

A. Are we talking about Lisa?

Q. Yeah, I am sure you are talking about Lisa. The last sentence of that page (indicating), I didn't understand PT plus. - '

A. Okay, it says then she was very in PT and interested in -- PT is an abbreviation for us, means in present time. It's like a person is like -- you look them in the eye and you know they are aware of you.


mean the bare minimum, you know they are aware of you. Usually they are aware of something. They are in communication with you. I still have some -- sometimes I would get a little rubber ball and rub it (indicating) to get her swallow and make her swallow, so I was trying to get her interested in something like that, and I guess I am saying she was, like paying attention to me, trying to cooperate.

Q. Were you present when her fingernails were trimmed?

A. I did that. I felt I had wanted to do it for days, because, I mean, it was a hazard to her and us, but she wouldn't let me. You know, I couldn't manage it, and I planned it out. Just one day I just washed her hands really well when she was asleep. I kind of soaked them, because she would get feces and stuff like that under her nails, and when they were real soft, I clipped them.

Q. Okay, I was curious, as best that I can put together these documents and put together a time frame, it looks like you have the last written word on this.

A. Yes.

Q. Do you know why that is?

A. I am very much an administrator, keeper of


records. I have always done that sort of thing.

Q. ï Do you recall how long after your last watch was that she ended up expiring?

A. I left that same day about five p.m. and went to sleep and --

Q. You say day. What day, the day she died?

A. Yes.

Q. Were you on watch that day?

A. I was there earlier that day. We were, like, in the midst of getting her to the shower, getting her cleaned up. She had spit a lot of food out and she had food in her hair, was dirty.

Q. That was December 5th?

A. I don't know the date. I don't even know the day of the week, to tell you the truth.

Q. Well, to help you out, if December 5th is the day she was taken to the hospital in Port Richey, that was in the later evening hours, is that correct?



Q. So you are indicating today you were part of the watch on December 5th?

A. Oh, yeah. I left a little bit late because Laura was a little bit late arriving, and Heather and I were helping her get a shower.


Q. What hours was that shift?

A. I think I started around midnight.

Q. The previous day, the 4th?

A. Well, I think my usual.

Q. Now, did you document that event?

A. I don't believe I did. Laura was 'late, and I was upset because she was late and I was so tired. I think I just went straight to bed and decided I would do my write-up later, and then I was awakened later and they said we need you to come to the conference room and when I got there, that's when I found out. I didn't know it.

Q. That was that evening?

A. I would say it was ten thirtyish or so.

Q. Who summoned you to the conference room?

A. Oh, I know it was one of the security guards. I don't know who. He just knocked on the door.

Q. At your apartment?

A. No, I was staying in another cabana, the last room in that place.

Q. You went to the conference room that evening?

A. Yes. .

Q. Who was there?

A. All the people that I recognized as being involved with Lisa, plus others that I didn't know that


were involved. It turned out later that it was everybody who had any contact with her.

Q. Were summoned to the conference room?

A. 'Yes.

Q. Who was the summoner?

A. I don't really know that. The first person I spoke to was Paul Kellerhous, I think.

Q. He is a security guard?

A. Yeah. I know he and I had exchanged one sentence each. I said, "But who is taking care of her right now?" And, you know, he was shocked and he said, "She died," and, I mean, I was shocked even more. I didn't 'know it.

Q. Well, what was the 'purpose of you being summoned?

A. That she had died of an infectious disease. That was believed to be the cause of death, which would mean every one of us was exposed and needed to be quarantined, which was being arranged. We all got in the room right there and we didn't leave, and in the apartment complex where we lived, people were, you - ï know, moving out of their apartments to make room for all of us to be together.

Q. Who was the speaker? Who was the one that said that?


A. I don't remember.

Q. 'Would that have been Alain Kartuzinski?

A. I don't remember him being there. I don't think he was in direct contact with Lisa, so he wouldn't be there. ï

Q. Was Janis Johnson there?

A. Yeah.

Q. Laura Arrunado?

A. I don't remember her, but she would have had to be there.

Q. And do you remember what was said at that conference?

A. I think It was kind of chaotic, actually, but I don't remember. It was some time between the time I was helping Lisa get her bath and the time I was awakened, she had died and was taken to the hospital, and everybody who had been around her I mean, because the death was believed to be meningitis, everybody was going to be quarantined to keep it from spreading all over the place. It was the arrangements for that. We have an apartment complex and we were -ï told, hey, we need your apartment, you guys can go sleep there to night. You know, there were about ' thirty of us. It was like a big, big group. '

Q. So were you asked to write any additional


reports for that?

A. Yes, it would seem likely, but I don't N remember doing it. It would seem like something that we would do, but I don't remember doing that.

Q. If you did, do you remember who would have asked?

A. I don't remember being asked. I don't remember doing it.

Q. Well, I will try to get this thing moved on. I kind of need to go back over some things since we don't have any written records, okay? If we can, pick through days, the best you can recall right now, because up until this moment you don't have any idea what happened to her on the last day. You are the first person that remembers seeing her. As painstakingly as we can, let's go minute by minute, as best as you can recall, and let's restructure that. As best you can recall -- if you don't recall something, of course, that's fine. All right?

A. Yes. '

Q. When did you first take that shift? ' '

A. I believe it was midnight.

Q. Okay, who was with you?

A. I know later in the day it was Heather, and it seems like it didn't work out for Sylvia to stay on


the shift. She was just -- she was extremely depressed. She had been crying. She left for the day. I know she was replaced. I think it was Heather that just stepped in and took her place. No, it wasn't.,, Heather stayed when I left. We must have had an overlapping, like four hours or something.

Q. Okay.

MR. LAURO: Do you remember who it was at twelve o'clock midnight that you showed up with that day?

A. No, I don't. I would have just said Sylvia, but then I know at some point --

MR. LAURO: Could it have been Laura?

A. No, because Laura came at five. Maybe Sylvia did.


Q. All right, what was Lisa doing when you got there? '

A. When I got there, I don't know. It was' sometime during the night she had diarrhea, and I had the clean-up project, and her bedding and her clothes' and her, and I started cleaning the bedroom.

Q. During that episode, did she ever acknowledge your presence, as best you can recall?

A. I don't remember, period. Oh, yeah, yeah,


she, you know, she didn't like it, yeah.

Q. Her eyes were open as you were doing things? A.; Oh, yeah, yeah, I think, like, fighting back.

Q. ' Okay, well, that's what I am asking, if she did something.

A. Oh, yeah, yes. Q.' So she had a change of clothes there?

A. Yeah.

Q. And, to your knowledge, when in the night was all that stuff taking place?

A. All I can tell you, it was dark outside still. It was possibly early, early morning.

Q. And you were successful in changing her clothes and bed sheets?

A. Yeah.

Q. Okay. She was physically still able to walk?

A. Yes, most definitely.

Q. Was she -- did you take her to the bathroom?

A. No, never at any point did she go to the bathroom. She went just right where she was. ï

Q. So all of this physical interaction with Lisa is taking place on her bed?

A. Pretty much on the bed, yeah.

MR. LAURO: I think

MR. McGarry asked


about the cleanup.

A. That was done on the bed.


Q. Did she eat or drink anything, that you recall, that night?

A. I think I was, like, constantly trying to get her to eat or drink something, so based on that, I would say yes, but I couldn't tell you what. I know I had herbal tea and water and the protein shake and milk.

Q. Okay. -

A. And I was, like, pestering her to eat or drink all the time.

Q. What is the next thing you recall after changing her clothes?

A. Well, I think she slept very soundly for a time, five or six hours, something like that, not the little two-hour spans.

Q. , Right.

A. And then one of I don't remember in detail. I remember after that, you know, after knowing she had made a real mess during the night, we just cleaned her up the best we could on the bed. We cleaned her up, washed her hair.

Q. That was on the 5th?


A. Yeah.

Q. In the morning or afternoon?

A. Afternoon. I would say it probably started around three thirty.

Q. ' Up until three thirty, what was' she doing?

A. I can't tell you like exact actions, but like her usual thing would be to lie on the bed. I had made the bed about a foot and a half from the wall to discourage this particular action. She got on the bed, would kick her legs, flailed her legs, heels, knees against the wall, and just constant batter (indicating) with her body, and she --

Q. That's on December 5th in the morning?

A. That was, like, routine behavior all along.

Q. Specifically December 5th?

A. I couldn't say that. I remember her sleeping better than she had slept before, maybe five-ish hours or something like that. I felt kind of excited about that, because she just didn't sleep good.

Q. Did she eat breakfast or lunch, or if there was such a schedule?

A. The schedule was anytime she was awake and, willing, I would feed her. I would offer her food very, very, very often, and if she took it, we would go (indicating).


Q. Specifically, now, December 5th, that morning?

A. The reason I wanted to bathe her was because she had food in her hair, she spit food out, so, yeah, it must -- I must have been at least working with her to get her to eat, but she definitely spit a lot of it out and was dirty.

Q. Okay. Describe the procedure, if you could, bathing.

MR. LAURO: Did she walk to the bathroom? Did somebody carry her?

A. She walked. She was dirty again. That's why she was bathed again. That was the main reason. I think she had more diarrhea. I forgot about that.


Q. On December 5th?

A. Yeah, yeah. Okay, she was dirty again. She had also taken off her clothes and was just moving around on the bed naked, and the bed was all dirty with the diarrhea, and we got her up and took her into the .~..- shower, except that I realized before we got to the - shower there was this mess, so I just stood with her at the end of the bed and had quickly cleaned up the bed. I believe that's the way it occurred. I had forgotten about her being that dirty at that moment.


Q. But with the previous watches, there were no problems?

A. Right, yeah.

Q. All right. After the bath?

A. I left in the middle of it. Laura arrived. She was late. I was really tired. I was very tired, so Laura just took over.

Q. And this other person that was with you possibly was Sylvia?

A. It was definitely Heather at that time.

Q. Heather?

A. Yeah, Heather was with me from sometime in the afternoon.

Q. All right. Let's go back there. You don't recall who the starter was with you on that watch, or you think it was Sylvia?

A. I am thinking it was Sylvia, but I also have the idea she, you know, was told she didn't have to be there long because she couldn't hack it, but I don't remember who took her place.

Q. Well, you just said Heather took her place.

A. I mean during that whole period of hours, Heather was the one who came -- maybe I am wrong about that -- '

Q. Well, I don't know the people and --


A. ' I know positively Heather was there. Q.' December 5th?

A. Yeah.

Q. In the afternoon?

A. Yeah, helping me give her a bath.

Q. Okay.

MR. LAURO: You don't know exactly when Heather came in?

A. No, and I don't remember if Sylvia actually made it all the way through or had to be, you know --


Q. So that is it for you after the bath?

A. Yeah.

Q. Okay.

A. Well, mid bath.

Q. All right, and that's the last contact you had with Lisa McPherson?

A. Yes.

Q. If you know, can you tell me why, after being so diligent on these other watches, that you didn't make a report on the last one? '. -

A. I think it was something about I don't know, I didn't think about it. Definitely, it's unlike me, because I am a real detailed person. .I was just, like, extremely tired. I don't know.


Q. But it's your recollection that you did not make a report?

A. No.

Q. If you did make a report, could you have made a report and we just haven't gotten it, is that a possibility?

A. .It would seem like I would have done my usual, gone out for a cigarette and made notes, but I do know she slept a lot that particular -- well, after -- I don't exactly remember writing it up, I don't.

Q. Okay, and other than the conference you had that evening --

A. That was it. I came to this room full of people and was told that she had died.

MR. MCGARRY: Okay, the detectives here would like to ask you a couple of questions, I am sure.

MR. LAURO: Could we take a two-minute break? She has been going for about an hour and a half.

MR. MCGARRY: Sure, that will be fine. (Whereupon a recess was taken). ï

MR. LAURO: Before we get started, Ms. Boykin wants to verify one point about the last line, whether she had any recollection of writing the report. Why don't you just explain on the record what your best


recollection is?

A. It would have been very like me to write a report.


Q. To ,have written a report?

A. Yeah. I just was extremely tired. I don't know.

MR. MCGARRY: The reason why I was asking, we asked for it.

MR. LAURO: I understand, but that's why I want her to specifically clarify that, because I don't know if she really, on the record, described her best recollection as opposed to, well, the report is not here, maybe I didn't do it.


Q. But your recollection is you did do it?

A. No, no. I mean, it's very possible I decided to do it in the morning. You know, morning, to me, was after sleeping eight hours, but then as it turned out, she passed away during the night, and I was not returning to take care of her and writing the report.

Q. I see what you are saying.

A. I think it's really unlike me to not do it.

Q. But you still don't know whether you did or not?


A. No.

MR. MCGARRY: All right, we are back on the record --

MR. LAURO: No, that was on the record. EXAMINATION BY MR.

Q. Real quickly, do you think that maybe you wrote a report on the 4th? Were you there the 4th, too? The' 5th was the day she died.

A. I was there routinely for several days.

Q. Like a sixteen-hour shift every day, so sixteen on and then eight off?

A. Yes.

Q. We are missing a report on the 4th, too, and this is a possibility, that I know

MR. Weinberg is getting these from the Church, so there is a possibility the reports are written, we just haven't gotten them. I wanted to check back with

MR. Fugate in an attempt to remind him of these two days and maybe they can research it further. I don't show a report written from you onthe.4th, which is very unusual. That's the last two days.

A. Right.

Q. Okay. I just wanted to ask you if you had any medical training at all.


A. I worked asa nursing assistant.

Q. Were you certified?

A. No.,

Q. Back then you were not certified?

A. No.

Q. How long did you do that?

A. Gosh, for a couple of years in high school and then in a hospital for just one year, and then an acute hospital, where I would guess two or three years.

Q. Acute being?.

A. Like critical.

Q. Critical care, okay. Now, would that have been on your resume to the Church?

A. Urn-hum.

Q. Can you remember who told you to keep records or is that something that is in the Church's teachings?

A. It's something we do.

Q. In the Church?

A. Yeah, yeah.

Q. Let me ask you something, have you studied a lot of L. Ron Hubbard's preachings? I don't want to --

A. Yeah, a lot, but nowhere near all. I am not a thoroughly-trained person.

Q. The only thing I am getting at, the reason, that in my investigation, that members of the Church


write everything down, and I read a statement from L. Ron Hubbard that said if it's not in writing, it's not true. Are you familiar with that?

A. Yeah, that pertains to policy, basically. What it means is don't just let someone just come and tell you what to do. There is policy, you follow policy.

Q. Okay. So if you were, say, investigating something and you were talking to someone in the Church, would you expect them to tel]. you the truth or would you tell them to write it down so it would be the truth?

A. I would expect them to tell me the truth.

Q. On one of your top statements, you addressed it to the public MLO. Who is that?

A. It's Emma Schermerhorn.



Q. So you were addressing your report to her?

A. Yeah. That's the medical liaison officer that worked with the public over there, for nonstaff, which you coordinate with their physician.

Q. On the next one, you signed it Dear Sir. You addressed it Dear Sir. Who was that to?

A. My thought would be it was going to Alain


Kartuzinski. I never delivered any of them. I left them on a shelf.

Q. Okay. Just like the police department, the Church has their hierarchy or what we call in the police department chain of command. You do, too, so I am from the Navy and that's how we did it with the Navy. You are assigned to this watch.

A. Yes.

Q. Okay, can you give me the chain of command for you?

A. There really wasn't one. It was not that completely unusual, other than getting it organized enough that she had stable people there with her; people who would like, knew her or knew what was going on and would follow through. It wasn't that well organized. I can tell you who I looked to for help.

Q. Okay.

A. Janis.

Q. Janis Johnson?

A. I would ask her questions if I needed something, I turned to her, and also Alain Kartuzinski.

Q. Okay. I noticed in reading your reports, and this is my opinion just in reading the reports, you tell me whether I am wrong or right, in reading your reports, it felt to me that you were answering to


Doctor Janis Johnson, which you indicated in your report several times.

A. I was shown the reports the other day, and I hadn't remembered calling her Doctor Johnson. I've never met her before. I talked to her on the phone from New York. I also was recuperating from a' medical problem when I came down. That's why it was so convenient to say, okay, this is your turn to go get some training, because I was recuperating, so I had been talking to her on the phone and I thought she was a doctor.

Q. I noticed in your log you said Doctor Janis Johnson visited, and when I read it, it was like, in my opinion, I thought you, as the author, were reporting to her. Would that be a correct assumption on my part?

A. Given the information, for sure, yeah, and it was also my understanding about her being a doctor. It's the medical liaison office that we have there. All the seated bases on the planet (phonetic) are supposed to have them, but they don't. I have never been around one before, so the person I spoke to on the phone there I thought was the doctor, 'but what actually goes on is we liaise ,with doctors, nutritionists, chiropractors, whoever was taking care of the staff member or the parishioner. '


Q. She is listed -- or she was listed as the MLO. Now you have listed Emma as the MLO. What is the difference?

A. Emma is the public medical liaison officer.

Q. Who Lisa was public? /

A. Right.

Q. You are staff?

A. I am staff, and Janis was -- she was one of the medical liaison officers.

Q. Emma worked for her?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you happen to know, offhand, who was in charge of the whole office, the whole medical liaison office at that time?

A. At that time, I believe it was Janis. I believe so.

Q. Janis?

A. Yeah.

Q. You said that a couple of days ago you saw your reports.

A. Yeah. ' - '

Q. Do you know who showed you those reports?

MR. LAURO: If it's somebody other than me, but I need to know before --

MR. MCGARRY: Well, he is just asking --


MR. ANDREWS: I am asking -- if you showed her the reports, I can see that's an attorney privilege. ' If she got them from somebody else who said here is your reports, read them over, you are going to a deposition tomorrow, that's what I am looking for.

MR. LAURO: Let me ask you privately,on that. (Whereupon a discussion was held off the record).

MR. LAURO: This goes to actually two - questions. Number one, I have no problem with you identifying who showed reports to you, but the conversations relating to those discussions may be covered by a privilege.

MR. MCGARRY: I agree. He asked who.

MR. LAURO: Right, so you can tell the detective who showed you those reports, but then any conversations relating to those reports may be privileged under various privileges, so why don't you identify who showed you the reports and then we will go from there?

A. Okay, I think it was Friday, a man who works for the Church by the name of Len Farney. F A R N E Y, I believe is how it's spelled.'


Q. I want to ask, so we can identify this


person, what is his title in the Church?

A. I don't know his real title. I know he works for\OSA, which stands for Office of Special Affairs.

Q. That's Brian Anderson, that area?

A. That area, yes.

Q. Thank you. You wrote a report dated November 29th, where you indicated at the top of the report, at twelve thirty a.m.two of the little gel tablets and then some small white tablets. Was there anyone on the watch, another person on the watch with you then?

A. I would say there definitely would have been. It was probably Sylvia.

Q. Okay, we got the last name of Sylvia?

A. Yeah.

Q. Now, again, on that same date, four a.m., you spoke with Doctor Johnson.

A. Yes.

Q. It indicates in the report, "I spoke to DOctor Johnson." Do you remember that conversation? Do you remember what it was about?

A. No, not at all. If -- ï

MR. LAURO: Maybe show her the report.

MR. MCGARRY: I don't know where we are on that.

MR. ANDREWS: Let's go to November 29th.


I have them numbered on mine, too.


Q. Let's see, basically, it looks like you start a log like I did when I was in the Navy, you did the log by time, so you came by a specific point and you write down twelve thirty and what was happening.

A. Yeah, I put what had occurred.

Q. Would you write all these together (indicating)?

A. No, I would take a break, go out, get some air, have a cigarette.

Q. Okay, and you have very good handwriting and you are quite consistent with your spacing and everything on unlined paper. Here you have added in four o'clock. Between the two and three o'clock, you have added four o'clock, "Spoke with Doctor Johnson reference no real sleep."

A. Yeah. Yeah, that is out of place, because I have an entry from three to six.

Q. Do you remember this entry specifically, why you had stuck it kind of in there? Did you think it. was important, or did it come later that you entered it in?

A. It definitely looks like I stuck it in, or I would have put it in here (indicating). Oh, I see,


between nine and six, slept real soundly. We were always concerned about the fact she wasn't sleeping. It's how is somebody going to function, get rested and get well, they are just constantly awake and rolling around.

Q. Now, I thought this was just a little bit strange, you came down six to nine.

A. Right.

Q. You wrote this thing and then you kind of summarized, like what we used to do in the log. You know, we would put nothing happened in the log, and then you summarized, which is very consistent, and then you signed it Rita Boykin.

A. Yes.

Q. And then all of a sudden we are over here at nine p.m., okay, and you have that one signed Dear Sir, and you start at nine p.m.

A. Yes.

Q. You start at nine p.m., and it says Friday. Now, can you tell us if this is a continuation? I thought it was a little consistent that you went six to nine, and this is p.m., according to the time.

A. Are you sure it's p.m.?

Q. Well, twelve thirty you are coming on the watch, because this here apparently is someone else who


has written in here, right?

A. ,Oh, yeah, this is a report Wednesday night.

Q. So that would be consistent 'with you coming on at midnight, so this is at twelve thirty, so this is now nine a.m.?

A. Yes.

Q. But the next time you pick up with any of your information is nine p.m. Could there be another report missing in between this possibly not supplied?

A. I don't know. It could have been that I was let to go sleep. I was there maybe two or three times before I settled into a routine schedule. That is what we were going for, but it took some time to get that, arranged. This might be from one of the earlier times, before it was like I was routinely scheduled to be there.

Q. I looked at the only Friday night that you could have been there, which I am thinking like the 1st or something like that. This is the 29th, okay, and then we are missing like the 30th, and then we go into the 1st, which would be a Friday night, and then nothing for the 4th and the 5th at all, and let me tell you, there is a possibility we just don't have it and maybe

MR. Fugate or Weinberg will be supplying it, so I will go on, because it's tough, because I know it's


been awhile.

A. I do need to tell you, I didn't give them to anybody, I left them on the shelf and I expected them to pick them up.

Q. And which apparently they were.

A. Yeah.

Q. On the 29th, you have a log entry of one a.m., Doctor Johnson just visited.

A. Yeah.

Q. Let me see if I can find that. Right here, the next page (indicating), Doctor Johnson just visited -- "Doctor Johnson just visited. Not possible for her to have any more chloral hydrate." Did Doctor Johnson ever tell you what chloral hydrate was?

A. I have an idea that it was something to help her sleep. I don't know if it's a prescription.

Q. Now, my understanding -- I see in here where you were squeezing these gel capsules into her throat to make her get the medicine.

A. Yeah, when I saw the reports the other day, I don't remember what it was

Q. I went and looked at the drugstore, just to help you out a little bit, it is a gel capsule of chloral hydrate.

A. , Little tiny --


Q. Right. Would this surprise you if I told you that this was a prescription drug and it could only be dispensed by doctors? Would it surprise you or not? Because you have Doctor Johnson involved.

A. I actually didn't know it was a prescription. I don't know who prescribed it.

Q. Because the name chloral hydrate could have fell right in there with Calmine (phonetic) and all of that.

A. Yeah.

Q. I think you answered this, but you talked about her being soiled and having to clean up the bed in several of your logs. I think you said she never did get up and go to the restroom, she soiled the bed at all times?

A. The bed or the floor or standing up when she was walking around.

Q. Now, with your past experience in hospitals and stuff when you were the aid, did you attribute that to her mental state or was that her physical state that was making her use the bed instead of the bathroom?.

A. I don't know. I hesitate to answer that because I don't have any medical training, I don't have any psychiatric training or anything like that. It's definitely not normal behavior, definitely not, I mean,


the behavior that somebody would exhibit if they were just padding around living their life.

Q. I was just thinking on the terms that most of the indications in your report say diarrhea and, tome, if I -- I don't have any medical training either. If I am cleaning diarrhea, that's not a normal physical thing that you would be doing, cleaning up diarrhea.

A. I know about diarrhea on the last day, the last night, and realized, I think she had probably just had diarrhea before we gave her a bath, but before that, it was regular bowel movements.

Q. And that she was doing in the bed, too?

A. Yeah.

Q. And I think you already said your watches were about eighteen hours long?

MR. LAURO: Sixteen, I believe.

MR. HCGARRY: She said sixteen.

MR. ANDREWS: I am sorry, sixteen hours.


Q. I just wanted to go to this page here and ask you if this was your log, and you probably answered, but I was trying, to cover it across the table. "Eleven a.m., she is asleep. Doctor Johnson was here and gave her two chloral hydrates. I believe she got the entire amount in each capsule." Is that your log?


A. Yes, it is.

Q. Now, somewhere in the log there is a conversation between, I believe it's you and the security guard about her running out of money. Are you familiar with that situation?

A. Yes.

Q. Tell me about that.

A. It is in the log, but what I remember was that I was, like, you know, feeding her the mashed bananas and protein powder. I was running out. I just had this little personal supply of it, and then some real nice protein shake showed up, and I said what is this, where are these coming from, and I believe it was the security guard that brought them.

Q. Sam?

A. Sam Ghiora, G H I 0 R

A. I believe, I am not real positive, but I think it was him, and he said that that

MR. STROPE: Excuse me, could you spell that again?

A. G H I 0 R

A. He said there had been a little bit of money on account for her, and he got it out of one of the hotel restaurants, and I was excited because this was something she liked and it was nice and nutritious and I wanted more, and he told me the money


was out, but that her employer was going to be spoken to to see if he could get some more, and I didn't know it at the time, but I am pretty sure Bennetta Slaughter was the employer.


Q. Okay. I have here -- I want to quickly show you -- basically, it's a room listing. I know you told

MR. McGarry that this is like a hotel and they bill the room. This shows the indication of room eleven seventy-four, but since, I have found out it's one seventy-four. I guess they used an extra finger in there. This room is next to the staff place, refrigerator?

A. Housekeeping.

Q. So this is where Lisa was staying. It shows here she was getting stuff from the canteen, which are you familiar with that,' like, you charge stuff to the canteen?

A. Yes.

Q. And her food that was coming from the canteen, some of it was quite expensive, being twenty dollars. I don't know if that's three meals a day or what, but it was quite high, and stops on the 23rd, which happens to be Thanksgiving. It just stops.

A. I am going to tell you, I didn't know until I


saw reports the other day, she was eating regular food to begin with. I hadn't heard that at all. When I came along, she was not eating. When I would put it in her mouth, she would just spit it out. She could have had, like, a light meal or something. That's conjecture, but at that point she was eating regular food.

Q. All right. I know that you said you came on Thanksgiving to Clearwater, and it just so happens I am missing some reports again for the 23rd, 24th and 25th.

A. I wasn't always consistent. I am not clear.

Q. That's not my question. And basically what happens is, I don't pick up any reports until the 29th from you. Now, there is missing reports or there is no reports for Monday the 27th and Monday the 28th. Do you remember whether you were on the watch then? You can key it in by saying Thursday is Thanksgiving and then this would be on the Monday.

A. I am honestly not sure.

Q. Okay.

A. I am not positive.

Q. All right. The whole time that you take over, from the 29th until the 5th, at the end, what kind -- is she getting any food or not?

A. I mean



A. No, they are actually individuals in the Church. Every one of us could take turns of being on the committee. I have many times.

Q. Do you know if one of these was held in the case of Lisa McPherson?

A. I do not.

Q. Did you write any reports to the Committee of Evidence or were you ordered to write any reports in reference to Lisa's death that would go to the Committee of Evidence or to security?

A. I never heard anything about a Committee of Evidence. I have never spoken to it about it. It would seem -- it would have been a very natural thing to be asked to write -- to do a write-up, like a debrief of what happened, but I don't recall doing that.

Q. Okay. You sound like so far you have been able to provide everybody's first and last name, which is really well. You sound like you are really connected in the Church. My understanding, that Janis , Johnson is no longer the medical liaison officer. Do you talk to her still?

A. Yes.

Q. What is she doing now?


have a Committee of Evidence held at the Church in reference to Lisa Mcpherson's case and then anybody responsible taking -- I don't want to say demotions, but no longer having the responsibility of their post, that would not be unusual, correct?

A. It could occur. I don't know about it. Usually when there is a Committee of Evidence, it's written up, you know, a write-up of it, the findings of what was done, what is being done about it and what the person is doing. It's distributed to all of us, but I never saw anything like that.

Q. In everything that I have learned so far as far as the Church goes, and I am trying to understand it, it would be -- and I would like you to disagree or agree with this comment -- it would be very unlikely that thirty people would be brought together after Lisa's death for a quarantine, okay, that were all involved with her, okay, and none of them to write any reports at all, agree or disagree?

A. It's very unlikely.

Q. Thank you. ' ' ï - -'

A. But I have to tell you, I didn't know she died. I walked into that room, I was stunned. I mean, I asked, "What is this? What is this? Everybody is here. Who is with Lisa?" and they tell me she is dead.


Q. Did Alain Kartuzinski pay regular visits? Did he come and see Lisa at all?

A. I never saw him.

Q. Okay. So, there was some mention, I think, in the logs about her asking for him, and that he was her auditor or something like that, but you did not -- on your watches, he never paid a visit?

A. Never.

Q. Okay. When you came to relieve people on your watch, okay, how did you get into the room?

A. I had a key.

Q. You had a key?

A. The door was locked.

Q. The door was locked, and from your descriptions of Lisa, she could not leave?

MR. LAURO: Physically?

A. Physically, she could go anywhere. It was riot uncommon for her to stand up from the bed and just charge in some direction. I never had her charge in the direction of the door. It was toward the back room.


Q. What I am getting at is that it would be reasonable -- if either one of us was there, it would be reasonable for either one of us to have the door


locked so that she couldn't get out into traffic or charge out there, with her mental behavior that you have described.

MR. LAURO: Wait a minute, I think the question was, was the door locked to keep her inside or was the door locked for other reasons or was the door typically locked?

A. Well, I'll tell you my idea of why that door was locked. I would hate for another person to come along and see this woman screaming and gouging herself, her face, a mess.


Q. okay, I understand, and that's basically what I was trying to say, you know, that I would have kept it locked, too. , Security was mentioned, security guards. Was there a security guard posted outside or did you have to go and get them when you needed them?

A. When she was being really bad, I believe it was like the first day, maybe the second.

Q. That you were there?

A. Oh, yeah, that I was there, yes. There was someone outside the door, someone close by all the time, and then after she quieted down, maybe up and around and maybe, like, grabbing or scratching or something like that, but not necessarily violent --


well, violent, but not intense. I could call for help at any time.

Q. Now you have a great memory for names. Can you remember any of the security guards that would have been outside?

A. Yeah, Alphonso Barcenas was the one I remember.

Q. Have you read any of the articles in the newspapers?

A. Not at all.

Q. I was a little confused on your testimony as far as the last day on December 5th, and the only reason I bring this up is that I have read some of the articles and some of the statements made by medical people in this case, and you have indicated that she was up and walking around on the 5th of December.

A. Yes, she was.

Q. And most of the medical people that were involved were saying that she would have been unconscious for two days.

MR. LAURO: I am not sure most of the medical people involved are saying that. I think that's an irrelevant question. If you want to ask her what her observations are, that's fine. She has no idea what somebody else --


MR. ANDREWS: Well, I am trying to jog her memory, because we don't have specific days here that she can remember. I am trying to say maybe now on the 5th or the 4th of December, did she remember her running around and -- '

MR. LAURO: I think that's a good question, but I don't think it should be prefaced with what the medical people are saying.


Q. Okay. My question again is that on -- that we don't have any reports for the -- we have a very scanty report for the 3rd of December and we have no report for the 4th of December, which is Monday, and we have no report for the 5th of December, which is Tuesday when she died. Are you positive on the 5th of December that she was up walking around?

A. Yeah, the last time -- that's why I was so shocked when they said she died. The last time I saw her, she was standing up, walking to the bathroom, standing up.

MR. ANDREWS: That's all I have. Thank you. EXAMINATION


Q. When you left at five o'clock, was she up and


A. Yeah, she was on her feet. She was walking around. She was being bathed. I mean, that's like -- you would say normal.

Q. Did you have to take her to the restroom to bathe her?

A. Yes.

Q. She couldn't walk?

A. She walked. She grabbed the shower curtain. The shower curtain was gone. She pulled it down. She would, like, plunge her hands and feet into the toilet. She was, like, active, getting into everything, and we would, like, just guard her from the toilet and get her bathed. We were as wet as she was even though we didn't get in the bathtub.

Q. So she had bowel movements that day on the bed?

A. I didn't remember this before, but I think the reason why there was a bath right then was because she had another bowel movement. I had cleaned her up in the bed several times. Her face and hair were sticky from all the food she had (indicating).

Q. Is there any reason she couldn't go to the bathroom? Could she walk?

A. Yeah. She never commented that she needed


to, it just happened.

Q. I just have a couple of more questions. You mentioned the Committee of Evidence.

A. I didn't, no.

Q. I am sorry. In your involvement with the Committee of Evidence, either giving testimony or asking questions, you, as a member of the organization, was anybody there represented by an attorney? Do these people have attorneys?

A. No, it has nothing to do with that.

Q. There are no attorneys that guide whatever statements you make?

A. No.

MR. LAURO: Let me back up. Lawyers don't provide statements that witnesses make. If your question is whether or not Counsel has represented somebody in the --

BY MR. STROPE: Q Has anybody within that procedure --

A. No.

Q. Or is it kind of an internal affairs thing?

A. No, it's completely written up in a policy and anybody can read it.

Q. I have read those policies.

A. A lawyer is not required to attend.


Q. That was my question.

A. Individuals who read the policies, who know our policies, know the level of integrity that is expected.

Q. I think Wayne covered this, did Lisa make any phone calls when she was there, have any visitors other than caretakers?

A. No, I don't know of anything like that.

Q. Was there a time when you were there when you had to summon security people?

A. The first day, or the first or second day when she was very violent, yeah, I was getting -- Alphonso was outside the door.

Q. So did you have someone come in and help you with her?

A. Yes.

Q. What did that someone do?

A. Well, I had been holding Lisa's hands because she was gouging her face and she was, like, all Over the place (indicating), just move, move, move, and I was holding her hands away from her face and she was scratching, gouging me, and then she got into a position where she could kick me, too, and, you know, I could either get kicked or let go and let her scratch herself, so I think she -- I don't think I had to call


him. I think he heard her screaming or something, knew something was going on, and he came ,in and he got ahold of her legs, like down by the ankles.

Q. Like at a hospital, when they bind them in bed?

A. No.

Q. You never had to bind her?

A. Well, we could have, but we didn't.

Q. You just restrained her physically?

A. Yes, not like restrained, pinned down. If she is doing this to her face (indicating), you know, she is clawing her face, we would take her hands away. If she was clawing her arm, which she did a lot, we would take her hands away, but, like, she would bite, kick, scratch.

Q. What do you think the reason was for that? I know you are not a doctor. Why was she so incorrigible?

A. I don't know.

Q. Did anybody say maybe we should take her to the hospital?

A. She had been to a hospital. She had a car accident right before and --

Q. That was --

MR. LAURO: You need to let her finish.


I think she is starting to answer the question.

A. She had been to a hospital. She had the car accident, took off her clothes, ran down the street. mean, she was --


MR. LAURO: Wait a minute, wait, wait, don't interrupt. If you are going to ask a question, let her finish it.

A. What was his question?


Q. My question was, while she was at the Fort Harrison, not prior to, but while she was at the Fort Harrison, did anybody say to anybody else, maybe we should take her to the hospital?

MR. LAURO: You can answer that with a yes or no.

A. I don't know.


Q. But you never heard anybody say let's get her medical help?

A. She had it already. I knew that. She had been in the hospital after the accident and --

Q. Well, that was before --

MR. LAURO: Wait a minute. Stop this


right now.

MR. STROPE: Let me rephrase the question.

MR. LAURO: Let me put this on the record. Repeatedly you are interrupting the answer, arguing with her. You are attempting to make your own statements. If you want to ask questions as to factually what happened, that's fine, but you are not going to engage in arguments. This is not the proper place.

MR. STROPE: I am not arguing.

MR. LAURO: That will be decided --

MR. STROPE: My question was after she arrived at the Fort Harrison. I know about the accident -- I wasn't -- I said after she arrived at the Fort Harrison. I was trying to save some time by telling her that I am familiar with that, but my question was after she arrived at the Fort Harrison, was there any reference to her maybe being taken to a doctor.

A. Okay, here is my answer, with the understanding it's not yes or no. I do understand your question. You already know about previous. So my knowledge was that she had been seen by a doctor in the hospital, she signed herself out, and she didn't want


to be there. She wanted to come back to the Church, so my point of view is, help her, help her.

MR. LAURO: Now you really haven't answered the question. When you were there, did you ever hear or discuss with anybody taking her to a hospital?

A. No.


Q. I want to go one step further. Right towards the end, when she has marks on her hands -- are you familiar with those marks?

A. . Yeah, scratches (indicating), bite, bites herself, you know.

Q. Did, at that time, you, yourself, you or someone else say we need to get her some medical attention?

A. No. There is a note in my report here, she has bitten her arms, she has scratched her arms, she has cuts, but none of them are infected. I was cleaning them, you know. They looked -- they weren't inflamed, you know, red. -

Q. I have seen her hands. There were some spots that looked like bug bites to me. Did you see those?

A. She was scraping at herself constantly.

Q. These were more like dots, like bites. Did


you see those?

A. No. I never saw bugs in the room, either. was in the room all the time. .I don't like bugs.

Q. But you never saw any bugs in the room?

A. No.

Q. You don't remember writing a report after the meeting, the day that Lisa died? Were you requested to write a report?

A. It seems so likely that I would have, but I don't remember. I was really stunned. It was a complete shock to me that she was dead.

Q. The room that you described, was that the room that she stayed in during the whole visit? Did she move to any other location?

A. When I became involved, that's the room she was in.

Q. You became involved right after her accident?

A. I don't even know when the accident occurred, actually. It's some days, two to three days after Thanksgiving.

Q. So she had been there for a few days before ' you became involved?

A. I guess so.

Q. You said that ,Sylvia became upset. Why was she upset? '


A. She was depressed about Lisa's behavior. I mean, Lisa attacked us. I mean, she would attack herself and she would attack us.

Q. , Is Sylvia an emotional person?

A. No, she usually is real cheerful, happy-go- lucky, but she is a brand new Scientologist, not much training, 'and she didn't know what to make of it. It disturbed her.

Q. How old is Sylvia?

A. I guess thirtyish.

Q. She is fairly new to the organization?

A. I think so, yeah.

Q. Arthur Baxter was in charge of security back then?

A. 'Yes.

Q. Is he still there?

A. Yeah, he is a security guard. He is in charge of a different area, but he is not the overall in charge.

Q. Did you ever see him in the room with Lisa?

A. Not in the room. He is the one who briefed me outside.

Q. So when someone shut off for their tour of duty, you were briefed as to what happened on the prior shift?


A. That one time, like, Arthur, like, preparing me, talked to me, but routinely, no. I would go in and, like, whisper, like, she has been sleeping, she hasn't eaten.

Q. ' During your tours of duty there, did Janis Johnson stop in daily?

A. I think I saw her a couple of times during the time I was there. That would be, like, night, well into the next day.

Q. Are you familiar with Doctor Minkoff? Have you heard of him?

A. I have met him a couple of times.

Q. When would that have been?

A. It was about two Saturdays ago. I don't-even know what day of the week. A few days ago he and Alain went to the apartment complex we have to check in some people who were at home in bed with the flu.

Q. Have you ever discussed this with him?

A. No.

Q. And what was the term used for -- you would use for Lisa's stay? ï

A. Well, she arrived as a parishioner, to receive, you know, training or something. I didn't know her before. Actually, I don't know if she was staying there. You know, I don't know if she was


staying at the Fort Harrison or if she moved. I actually don't know that.

Q. Again, I base a lot on what I hear, the rumors that I hear. An attorney for the Church has said that Lisa was in isolation at the Church. What does that term, isolation, mean to you? HR. LAURO: You can answer that question in reference to what does the term isolation 'mean to you. Anything else relating to what somebody else has said is totally irrelevant. Just answer the question in reference to what isolation means to you.

A. Isolation, to me, means separate from others. BY HR. STROPE:

Q. Separated from the public, from other people?

A. Separate from other people. I mean, that's not even a Church word.

Q. Isolation is not a Church word?

A. No. It's a regular dictionary word. We don't have a special definition for isolation. We have a technical dictionary and administrative dictionary. I don't think you would find that in either one of them as a special Church definition.

Q. Is there a term isolation?

A. No.

Q. ,These clear gelatin capsules, did you say you


had those from Doctor Johnson?

A. No, they were simply on the bureau. I didn't know where they came from.

Q. Were their directions with them?

A. I believe so. I just don't remember knowing what chloral hydrate is. I gathered by my. own reports when I saw them the other day that, well, the gelatin capsule was the chloral hydrate. I think you confirmed that by looking at it.


A. And I couldn't remember the name of the little white tablets. I wrote little white tablets.


Q. I can't picture you giving her a tablet just sitting on there with no directions.

A. Yeah, I must have had some the day they were given to me, but I don't remember.

Q. You said that Laura speaks English, Laura Arrunado?

A. Yeah.

Q. 'Does she speak well?

A. I have only had casual conversations with her. I think so, from my casual conversations away from taking care of Lisa. We didn't really talk much then when taking care of Lisa. We were talking about


kids, talking about, you know, the weather and stuff like that. Yeah, I think so.

Q. Getting back to Doctor Johnson for a minute, when she would come in, did she do the normal doctor things, check vital signs and temperature and those type of things?

MR. LAURO: Let me interrupt that question. You can describe, without an editorial comment to the question, what you saw.

A. I don't remember temperature being taken, I don't remember vital signs. I remember her sitting on the side of the bed, like, observing Lisa. If Lisa acknowledged her, like, holding her hand -- One time when Janis came in -- see, Janis was in uniform' and the rest of us didn't. We just figured like a uniform might be disturbing to her, like somebody there to do something to her rather than just be with her, so Janis was still in her uniform and Lisa would say something that made me think that she thought Janis was a psychiatrist or somebody that was there to, hurt her, and it was -- I mean, the previous times she had been very accepting of Janis, and this time she was kind of disturbed, and I don't know just what she said, but she thought Janis was there to hurt her, but usually Janis would just sit there on the side of the


bed. There was a time that I know she hadn't slept, I was real worried and remember telling Janis that, and Janis got -- was able to get her to swallow, and it's in the report, where I hadn't been able to.


Q. Do you know Humberto Fontana?

A. I know of him. I don't have a personal --

Q. He was never with you during that time, during the time when you were there?

A. No. I didn't know him, period. I have known him since then. If he was there, I don't know.

Q. And you know Bennetta Slaughter?

A. At the time, I didn't even know there was a person named that, but last December I did meet her.

Q. Was she there at that time?

A. I never saw her. I was told -- well, no, I was never told her name. I was told this was' Lisa's employer, was providing some money, and I assumed that that was Bennetta.

Q. After you 'left the day that Lisa passed away, you left around five?

A. Yes.

Q. And Heather stayed on?

A. Yes.


Q. Do you remember anything that she had to eat or drink that night?

A. It would have been the protein shakes, just things I usually got into her, but I do know that she 'was, like, refusing more and more, that's why she was so dirty with food, and I kept trying to feed her and she would' take a little bit and she would spit the rest out.

Q. Did you prepare for today's deposition with anyone other than your attorney?

A. No.

MR. LAURO: Prepare, I don't know what that means.


Q. Have you sat and talked about what you were going to testify here today with anyone other than with your attorney?


MR. Farney (phonetic).

Q. Farney?

A. Yeah. He is the one that showed me my reports originally. ' . '

Q. How long was that session?

A. About twenty minutes.

Q. There was no discussion about your testimony today?


A. No.

Q. You said that was the first time since this happened that you have reviewed this with anyone other than your attorney?

A. No, there were two other attorneys. A lady by the first name of Laura (phonetic).

Q. Do you remember someone by the name of Morris?

A. I don't remember the name. I don't know the man's name. , I remember the lady.

MR. STROPE: I don't have anything else. Thank you.


Q. I have a quick question. Up until the end, you know, you took care of her through that weekend and then that Monday and Tuesday, and she died on Tuesday night, was Janis Johnson there through that whole time? There was no big lapses that she was not there?

A. No, she was in and out.

MR. ANDREWS: Okay, that's my question. Thank you.


STATE.OF FLORIDA ) COUNTY OF PINELLAS ) I, the undersigned authority, certify that RITA BOYKIN appeared before me and was duly sworn. WITNESS my hand and official seal this 26th day of March, 1997. ~ ~RY . WILLIAMS Notary Public - State of Florida My Commission No. CC 294742 - My Commission Expires: 07/13/97 ~ Shetyl M. W,Uin~s ~' ~ - '~. ~ CommissioD No. CC ~94~4Z ~ p.~My Cominhs~∞fl Expires 07113197

99. STATE OF FLORIDA ) COUNTY OF PINELLAS ) I, SHERYL H. WILLIAMS, Registered Professional Reporter, certify that I was authorized to and did stenographically report the statement of RITA BOYKIN, and that the transcript is a true and complete record of my stenographic notes. I further certify that I am not a relative, employee, attorney, or counsel of any of the parties, nor am I a relative or/employee of any of the parties' attorney or counsel connected with the action, nor am I financially interested in the action. Dated this 26th day of March, 1997. H. 97