Interview with Katherine Chamberlain
| Date: | March 11, 1997 |
| Pages: | 46 |
SUPPLEMENT/ CONTINUATION FL0520300/Clearwater Police Department Report No. 9529 158 Offense Death Investigation Date of Report 3/10/97 Location 644 Pierce Street Orig Incident Date 12/6/95 Victim Lisa McPherson VI Prosecute Yes No Investigator Det. Jorge Carrasquillo Previous Status Active Subject None Impound Inventory None
Today's date is March 10, 1997. The time is 1610 hours. This is an interview with Katherine Chamberlain concerning the Lisa McPherson investigation. Present during the interview are myself (Det. Carrasquillo), Agent Sharon Feola with the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, and Attorney Ron Cacciatore, who is Mrs. Chamberlain's attorney.
| Det. Carrasquillo: | For identification purposes Mrs. Chamberlain, would you please identify yourself. Provide your full name.., spell it out please... home address, date of birth, social security, home number, and work number. |
| Chamberlain: | Okay. So it's Katherine Chamberlain...K A T H E R I N E... CHAMBERLAIN.. X, Florida X My... |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Date of birth. |
| Chamberlain: | Date of birth...X. My social security number is X |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | And work and home phone number. |
| Chamberlain: | Oh...my home phone number is X And my work number is X |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. I noticed on your driver's license you have the middle initial G. |
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| Chamberlain: | G...yes. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | What...what does that stand for? |
| Chamberlain: | That's for my middle name, which is Goodman. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Goodman... okay? |
| Chamberlain: | And I go by Katie, so.... |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. At this point in time, I'm gonna have Agent Feola put you under oath. |
| Chamberlain: | Okay. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay Katie. I'm a State law enforcement officer. I'm empowered to take sworn testimony. |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay. And I need you to raise your right hand. You swear or affirm that the statements you're about to make are the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? |
| Chamberlain: | I do. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. Like I told you when we were on tape, what we're basically looking for is some background information on Lisa. You are no means the target of this investigation, okay. How long have you been employed with AMC Publishing? |
| Chamberlain: | Since August of 1994. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. And how long have you known Lisa? |
| Chamberlain: | Since...umm... sometime in 1983...probably April or May...around there. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | So you knew her prior to working at AMC? |
| Chamberlain: | Yes. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Why don't you tell us a little bit about that. |
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| Chamberlain: | Umm.. I was actually a staff member at the.., the Church in Dallas. And Lisa was doing courses and services. And then later, she also was a staff member. So that's how I met her...it was in a course. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Lisa was a staff member? |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | I always thought she was just a practitioner. |
| Chamberlain: | When she was in Dallas, she was a staff member for I think. a couple of years. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. What was her...what was her position? |
| Chamberlain: | Umm... she did...we do like personality tests...umm... officer capacity...analysis tests. And what she did was analyze those computer...it's computerized personality tests. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Did she have a title? |
| Chamberlain: | Umm.. I don't know that I remember what it was. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Or did she have a hat? |
| Chamberlain: | Well...not...yeah, but I don't remember exactly what it was. I just know that she did the testing for that. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | So you basically relocated with Lisa when all...you all left Texas? |
| Chamberlain: | Uh...no... they came in January or the end of December of 93. I didn't come till August. So I knew them but didn't work with them before that. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay Katie...umm... can I ask you a question? |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh. |
| Agent Feola: | How many parishioners...can you give us a ballpark how many are in Dallas? |
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| Chamberlain: | Oee, I.. I don't know that I would know that. I would...you know.., probably say a couple thousand. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay. Would...did you work there when it was located on Steppington? |
| Chamberlain: | No, I worked there before that. |
| Agent Feola: | Where was it located before that? |
| Chamberlain: | On Mandeville. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | And that's where Lisa also worked at? |
| Chamberlain: | Yes. Was a staff member...Uh Huh. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Did she have any problems during that time when she was out in Texas? |
| Chamberlain: | Problems...like...? |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Breakdowns....because this was my understanding that she had a breakdown back in November. Did she experience anything like that in Texas? |
| Chamberlain: | Umm...not that I know of. I know, she had some physical problems during...when she was in Texas. But as far as a... a breakdown...no, I don't know of anything like that. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Because she had... she had a pretty tough time. Didn't she get divorced in Texas also? |
| Chamberlain: | Yes, she got...well, she got divorced...this was after I was not on staff and... and was doing other things. So we saw each other.. not as, you know, often. But yes, she did get divorced during that time but I don't really remember |
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| when. when it was though. It was a...an upsetting time for her. I know she was extremely upset about the divorce. | |
| Agent Feola: | Was that the Gene divorce... |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh... |
| Agent Feola: | Gene or her husband before that? |
| Chamberlain: | No, her husband before that was way before that... |
| Agent Feola: | Okay. Did you have an occasion when she was going through that breakup with Gene... |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh. |
| Agent Feola: | And she had moved to California? |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh. |
| Agent Feola: | And was it.... signed a billion year contract with the church in California? |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh. |
| Agent Feola: | Divorced him.., and did you have any interaction with her when she returned to Dallas? |
| Chamberlain: | Yes, as friends. I mean I knew her then...you know and we... obviously we...you know...there were church functions and events. |
| Agent Feola: | Was she ostracized from the church at that time since she had signed a contract in California... a billion year contract...but she didn't fulfill the terms of the agreement? |
| Chamberlain: | No. Once.., once that happens... if you...if you sign a contract and you don't fulfill it, there are things that..you know..you do as steps to... to make sure that..you know..you haven't incurred a debt with the church and that sort of thing. But it's not an ostracization of any kind. |
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| Agent Feola: | Okay. Were her auditing classes cut off at all during that time that you know of? |
| Chamberlain: | I don't know what she was doing as far as services..., if she was doing...you know.., counseling or she was doing an actual course. But I know...you know...having talked to her during that time period...you know...that it was a very upsetting thing for her...getting divorced from Gene. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Yeah, because my understanding was she was under a lot of stress during that time period. |
| Chamberlain: | Yeah. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | But she.., she reacted differently than she did in November. |
| Chamberlain: | Yeah...yeah... I guess so. |
| Agent Feola: | I mean...upon relocating...upon relocating from California, she was under a very stressful... |
| Chamberlain: | Oh...exactly...there was.. |
| Agent Feola: | But it was handled in a different manner than the stress that she was under in November of 1995, which we haven't questioned you about yet. |
| Chamberlain: | I don't know if it was handled in a different manner. I don't have any idea how it was handled. But I just know that she was under tremendous stress. She was very unhappy and she had expressed that unhappiness to me. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. Just to get a little bit of background on you so I... |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh. |
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| Det. Carrasquillo: | So I can compare you with Lisa. What is your job description down at AMC? |
| Chamberlain: | Well, originally I started as a sales rep and I worked directly with Lisa. She actually trained me. I'd never worked sales before and I...I'd always done accounting. And umm...then we had some changes in the company where some people left. And so they didn't have anyone to do their accounting for them. And I agreed to step in and do that. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | So you became their accountant? |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh. |
| Agent Feola: | Are you currently the company accountant? |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh...yeah. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Well, would that be a decrease in pay? Because my understanding is sales people really make good money there. |
| Chamberlain: | Well, what we did was we worked it out so that it wasn't a decrease in pay. Umm...you know.., obviously with sales you get that runway... |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Commission.., right... |
| Chamberlain: | You've gotta...you've gotta build it up. So it had gotten to the point where it was building up and going. So there were some things I got to keep for a certain period of time because I'd built them up and then we let that go and then...you know.. I was compensated on...you know.., a regular salary basis, so.... |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | When was the last time you had contact with Lisa prior to her death? |
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| Chamberlain: | The Saturday...that.Saturday of the accident, which was I think the 17th. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | November 18th was the date of the accident. |
| Chamberlain: | Oh...the 18th then. |
| Agent Feola: | It was a Saturday though? |
| Chamberlain: | A Saturday...Uh Huh. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. And what contact was that? |
| Chamberlain: | Well, I saw her that morning. Umm...we were supposed to meet at work. And I saw her that morning at the warehouse. We were painting props for the Winter Wonderland site. And she was there painting props and that's where I saw her. And then we worked together... there were about six or seven of us working on props. And then I went to run an errand and Lisa went with me...and... |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | That was...now that was the same day of the accident? |
| Chamberlain: | Same day of the accident. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Prior to the accident. Okay. |
| Chamberlain: | Yeah. And I was with her up until about 3 or 3:30...something like that. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | And...and what was her frame of mind that particular day? |
| Chamberlain: | She was extremely tired and she had told me that she hadn't been sleeping. You know.. I knew that she hadn't been sleeping well. And she said she just didn't get a lot of sleep when she was gone on the convention and that...she was tired but she wasn't like physically tired...you know. She was more like... |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Mentally... |
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| Chamberlain: | Mentally tired.... stressed out from having done everything. So that's why she was doing... she wanted to work...umm...until she got tired. And then she said "when I get tired, will you take me home?" because she hadn't gone to pick up her car yet. |
| Agent Feola: | Where was her car at? |
| Chamberlain: | At the office. |
| Agent Feola: | I.. I need you to think real hard on this Katie and I want to remind you that you're under oath. |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh. |
| Agent Feola: | Are you positive that you saw her on Saturday, December...on November 18, 1995? |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh...the day of the accident...Uh Huh. |
| Agent Feola: | You're positive? |
| Chamberlain: | Oh yeah, I was with her for probably six hours. |
| Agent Feola: | You said about 3 or 3:30? |
| Chamberlain: | Yeah. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | And...and you were at the Winter Wonderland right down here on...on the corner of Ft. Harrison & Pierce?. |
| Chamberlain: | No. We had...we had a warehouse off Jeffords. |
| Agent Feola: | So you guys were painting props for...? |
| Chamberlain: | Painting props. And then we had a warehouse where we had put everything in. And then what we were doing was trying to...you know...make it look nicer because it was from the year before we had gotten them. |
| Agent Feola: | Spruced them up a little bit. |
| Chamberlain: | Yeah. |
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| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. And you said Lisa's car was at the office on Lakeview? |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Do you know how she got to her car? |
| Chamberlain: | Umm...Benetta told me that she took her to her car. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. I |
| Agent Feola: | You said that you saw her that Saturday morning...that you knew that she had returned Friday from the Orlando convention. |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh. |
| Agent Feola: | Did you meet her at the warehouse that day or did you meet at the office and then go to the warehouse together... or how did her car specifically get to AMC Publishing on Saturday morning? |
| Chamberlain: | Okay. She had loaned her car to someone... another employee..to use over the week...or the time that she was gone. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay. Was that Gloria maybe...her roommate? |
| Chamberlain: | No. Umm.. I don't really remember what his name...I'm sorry but...! know what he looks like...uh...anyway, she had loaned her car to him. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay. |
| Chamberlain: | To use for the week. And then he had brought it back on Saturday, which was the agreement. I had spoken to her Friday evening and we had planned to meet at the office. We were working on some particular pending sales that she had. And some things had happened at the convention and we wanted to clean all those up before the...before Monday. |
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| And when I got to the office, she wasn't there. So I went over to the Winter Wonderland site because I had to also help them, and there she was. So that's why I knew her car... | |
| Agent Feola: | Did you know how she got there? |
| Chamberlain: | No, I don't know how she got there but I knew her car was at the office |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | You said you spoke to her Friday evening? |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Is that when she got back from Orlando? |
| Chamberlain: | She called me when she got back from Orlando. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | What did she seem like at that time? |
| Chamberlain: | Umm...forced...kind of like a forced kind of..."everything's okay" kind of thing. Lisa was a very umm...down to earth...very natural person. And she...you could tell the difference when she was talking to you. And it wasn't...you know.., it wasn't like anything she had ever.., how she'd ever talked to me before. It was very...it was just forced. |
| Agent Feola: | Unusual? |
| Chamberlain: | Yeah.., it was just... |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Ro...robotic like maybe? |
| Chamberlain: | No, it was just kind of happy, but...you know...like someone was trying to pretend to be happy when they weren't really. Like "everything went real well at the.., at the..." |
| Agent Feola: | Kinda like fake. |
| Chamberlain: | Yeah. "Everything went real well... da..da..da." "Okay, well let's meet tomorrow," because she wanted to meet like at 7:00 in the morning on Saturday. And I said "No." |
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| Det. Carrasquillo: | Well, how.., how did you know everything didn't go well? |
| Chamberlain: | Brenda had called me on Friday. |
| Agent Feola: | Brenda.... Chamberlain Brenda Hubert had called me. Agent Feola:! Where did she call you from? |
| Chamberlain: | From Orlando. |
| Agent Feola: | And what did she tell you? |
| Chamberlain: | She said that Lisa hadn't been sleeping well... had been really upset. And she didn't...you know...they were supposed to stay through Saturday because it was a...that's... that was the schedule of events with their Saturday. And I said "If she's not doing well and if she seems upset, you should just come home...! mean if she's not sleeping, that could be worse than anything else...why stay there and just be miserable for the two of you....there's two boys...make them tear it down."...you know... |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | So it was your...on your advice that they came back early? |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh, |
| Agent Feola: | Did you see them upon their return from Orlando? |
| Chamberlain: | No, she called me at home... |
| Agent Feola: | When she...when they got home? |
| Chamberlain: | When they got home, she called me. |
| Agent Feola: | Was Lisa delivered to her house? |
| Chamberlain: | Yeah. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | So you saw her Friday night at her apartment? |
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| Chamberlain: | No. I mean she called me from her apartment. That's where she said she was calling me from...her apartment. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Just one question. Why would Brenda call you for advice about...you know... Lisa? |
| Chamberlain: | Umm. well, I mean just because we're all friends...! mean we all do a lot of things together. I think Benetta wasn't...she was in the.., either in the office on the phone or she wasn't in the office. So it was just one of those things "What...what should I...".. you know... "What should I do?...I'm like "Come home." |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | So you all look out for each other? |
| Chamberlain: | Absolutely. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Pretty close and tight? |
| Chamberlain: | Yeah. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | In your group. |
| Agent Feola: | So you were not only a business...you were not only a business associate of Lisa's but you were also a personal friend? |
| Chamberlain: | Right. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Do you have any information regarding the circumstances surrounding McPherson's leave of absence in July of 95? |
| Agent Feola: | Or around there. |
| Chamberlain: | Like what kind of circumstances? I was there at work..! mean I know that she... |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | When she took an R & R. |
| Chamberlain: | Yeah. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | She was gone like for a month. |
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| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh, |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Month and a half... something like that. Do you know why that happened? |
| Chamberlain: | Umm...I just know that she decided that's what she wanted to do. I mean that was just something that was her decision, so she decided to take a month leave. It's not unusual for someone whose doing services to want to do them fulltime. You know.., it seems to go faster and.., and you know...if you don't have the day to day...your job and everything else....if you can just take off and do that, then that would be great. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | So she.., she went in to do courses?' |
| Chamberlain: | No. I think she was doing counseling at that point. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | So she went through counseling? |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | What's the difference between counseling and rest and relaxation? |
| Chamberlain: | Well, I think counseling is that she would go and she would do auditing sessions or...or be with someone and do that versus if she just went there to stay...you know.., to use it as a hotel... then that would just be the rest and relaxation part of it. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Because we were told that she went in for rest and relaxation, not counseling. |
| Chamberlain: | Well, I don't know what she was doing at the time. I just know that she took.., decided to take time off fulltime...so.. |
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| Det. Carrasquillo: | So she never discussed personally with you the reason why she was going?. |
| Chamberlain: | No...no. |
| Agent Feola: | You didn't know a reason why? ! mean was it emotional... financial...both...work...? |
| Chamberlain: | No...!.. I don't...no, I don't know really to be honest with you. It was such a stressful...I...I'd have to say it was such a stressful time during... |
| Agent Feola: | Now this is July now Katie. |
| Chamberlain: | No, I know...but...but the whole thing kinda like from beginning to end was a really stressful time...only because we were under...you know...there was a lot of of work pressure...having lost several sales people...so... |
| Agent Feola: | That's my next question. There's been.., from a lot of people that we've talked to, they said that Lisa's sales were down. |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh. |
| Agent Feola: | And she was experiencing a lot of pressure and stress because of that. |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh. |
| Agent Feola: | What kind of pressure and stress is put on an individual if "their sales are down" or they're not producing like they should be or...you know...Jorge and I have people also that we have to answer to... |
| Chamberlain: | Right...well... |
| Agent Feola: | What kind of pressure do you receive? |
| Chamberlain: | Well, obviously each sales person has quotas that they're supposed to make. We do mailings...multiple mailings a |
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| month to individual states. So there are quotas per each mailing that...and Lisa had been...you know...was the oldest sales person. She was the...the..the most seasoned sales person and obviously been there the longest. /And she had the largest clientele. Umm...so...you know...and the fact that she was strictly commission, so if her sales were down she wasn't making money. I think that was more of a stress for her and...you know...then making sure that the... as a group, the company was doing well because...you know...each of the mailings did need to be full. | |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | What about her breakup with her boyfriend? Did that put anything into the stress factors? |
| Chamberlain: | Well...! mean...like! said, this whole thing... there were so many events that yes, I think it did because...you know....this was somebody she wanted to marry and it was very upsetting for her. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Did she talk to you about that incident? |
| Chamberlain: | Oh sure. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | What did she tell you? |
| Chamberlain: | About the breakup? |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Uh Huh. |
| Chamberlain: | She said she just...it just wasn't gonna work...there wasn't any way it was gonna work...that she had finally...they'd gone back and forth a few times trying to figure out how to make it work. Because it wasn't one time only that.., that they decided it wasn't gonna work...you know. |
| Agent Feola: | They knew already. |
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| Chamberlain: | Yeah. It was like they kept trying and then it just didn't...it just didn't make it. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Do you have any information regarding her isolation starting November 17th until her death on December 6th? |
| Chamberlain: | Well, her isolation wasn't on November 17th. That...was that on that Friday?. |
| Agent Feola: | It was on Saturday, November 18th. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | It was the 18th. |
| Chamberlain: | Okay...I'm sorry. |
| Agent Feola: | On the 18th of November. |
| Chamberlain: | 18th of November until... |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | And her death was on the 5th but I said the 6th. |
| Chamberlain: | Right. Ummm...now...I'm sorry...I didn't get what...what you asked me. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Did.., did you have any information regarding her isolation starting on the 18th of November 95 until her death on December 5th 95? |
| Chamberlain: | No...not...you know... |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | You have no knowledge? |
| Chamberlain: | Not personal knowledge...you know. |
| Agent Feola: | You didn't ask where she was? |
| Chamberlain: | Well, I'm not...that's what I'm saying...no, I didn't have personal knowledge... that I walked up to somebody and said "How's she doing?" But I know that Benetta had talked to other people and she had let me know. I mean, I would ask |
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| her if she'd seen.;.you know..."Have you seen Lisa...does anybody know...? | |
| Agent Feola: | Who had Benetta talked to? Do you know? |
| Chamberlain: | I don't have any idea who she talked to. So...I mean...but there were other people that had seen her and said that she seemed to be doing well. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. What other people saw her? |
| Chamberlain: | I don't know the answer to that question. I just know that other people had reported that they had seen her. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | And you...you were a pretty tight group and you all worked together...you're concerned about each other even to the point where they call you from Orlando and tell you hey, she's not doing that good. |
| Chamberlain: | Right. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | So you don't remember who...who went to see her? |
| Chamberlain: | Well, no...! don't know that...! don't know of any of us that went to see her because basically if she wanted rest and relaxation, that was the purpose of her going. I don't think we would interfere with her. She.., that's what she had done before.,.you know...and so there wasn't any I think.., any hesitation on our part...or at least on my part that obviously things would get better for her because it had gotten better for her before. So...! mean...that's why it's like not...wasn't...I wanted to find out, yeah, but I didn't want to interfere in any way either. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. So to your knowledge, no one in the office went to see her...to your knowledge? |
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| Chamberlain: | I...yeah, to my knowledge no one. But that could be wrong. I don't know. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | And...and what was the explanation they gave for her being out... out of the office? |
| Chamberlain: | Who? |
| Agent Feola: | Anyone. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Did Benetta give you an explanation? |
| Chamberlain: | No, she just was.. I mean I knew that she had gone to the Ft. Harrison to stay...okay...I knew that from Saturday night...you know... after the accident happened. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Did you know.. ,did you think she went for R & R...rest and relaxation? |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Or isolation? |
| Chamberlain: | No. Rest and relaxation. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Because Ableson...is that the attorney's name.., said that...you know...if you've been following this in the paper, you just changed his...his story. He said she was there for isolation but at her own request. |
| Chamberlain: | No, I...I try not to read the paper. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay. Before we get a little too far Jorge, I want to ask Katie another question. Regarding this Saturday morning painting...painting episode for the winter wonderland project, who else was there that can verify the fact that Lisa was there that morning? |
| Chamberlain: | Umm...there was Benetta. I know there were some people that came in and out, so T.C. was probably there...T.C. |
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| Applebaum. I'm,..Im not sure to be honest with you who else was there. | |
| Agent Feola: | You.... Katie, you spent six hours there painting signs and you don't remember one person that was there besides Benetta? |
| Chamberlain: | Well, I spent six hours painting signs, but I didn't spend the whole time there. I was there until about 1:00 or 1:30 when Lisa and I left. So... |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. Where'd you guys go when you left? |
| Chamberlain: | Well, I went to run an errand. We went...there was supposedly a Woolworth Store or one of those type stores that was going out of business, so we were gonna go see if they had like ribbons.., some of the things we needed for this. And somebody had told me it was in Dunedin, so Lisa and I got in the car and she went with me. And we were chatting in the car and driving along. We never did find it. We couldn't find it. I drove up and down all through there. They were having some kind of...! don't know... festival or something that blocked the street off so we couldn't get in there. We drove...you know...we were driving around trying to get in there. And then finally she started nodding off in the car. I said "Are you ready to go home now?" She goes "Yeah, I'm ready to go take my nap." I said "Okay," so I took her to her house. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Around what time did you take her to her house? |
| Chamberlain: | That was probably about 2:30,..2:30 to 3.. something like that. |
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| Det. Carrasquillo: | In the afternoon? |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | And her car was still at the office? |
| Chamberlain: | Her car was still at the office...yeah. And then when we got to her house, umm...she didn't have any... since she'd been gone she didn't have anything to eat or drink. And she was really tired. I said "Well, let's...do you have your vitamins...have you taken your vitamins?" She goes "No." So we went upstairs and couldn't find her vitamins. She didn't have anything, so I got her back in the car and we went to the grocery store and got her some vitamins and some juice and some fruit. And then she took that...and then she... |
| Attorney Cacciatore: | Well, you say "took that"...tell...tell us... |
| Chamberlain: | Well, she took some Vitamin Bi. She took some Vitamin C. She ate a banana. She drank a glass of juice. I fixed her another glass of juice.'..set it by her bed. Made sure that her...you know, "Was this the way you want your room to be?" She hadn't unpacked from the trip. I unpacked her from the trip. |
| Agent Feola: | Did you write a report to anyone about that? |
| Chamberlain: | That I'd done that? |
| Agent Feola: | Uh Huh. |
| Chamberlain: | Yeah, I wrote a... I wrote a report. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Did you take it to the...who did you give it to? |
| Agent Feola: | The reason.., and the reason I want to be real candid.., and Mr. Cacciatore, I don't want to accuse your client of not |
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| being truthful, but we have documentation that indicates that Lisa was somewhere else during those dates and times. | |
| Attorney Cacciatore: | Really? |
| Chamberlain: | That would be interesting because she was with me. |
| Agent Feola: | So that's why I asked. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Did you write a report for the 18th and 19th? |
| Chamberlain: | Yeah, I'm sure I did. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Who did you submit it to? |
| Chamberlain: | Umm...I'm trying to think of the person's name that I actually gave it to, Probably was...the quality control secretary is what the name of that post is... and! spoke with her and I gave her that report at the...at the church. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Did you sign your report with your name? |
| Chamberlain: | Sure. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | So your report is signed with your name on it? |
| Chamberlain: | Yeah, I'm pretty sure it is. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Let's go ahead and stop. |
| Attorney Cacciatore: | Yeah, I'd like to stop because there's some... TAPE TURNED OFF |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | The tape is being turned back on and it is now 1644 hours. |
| Chamberlain: | So I remember very vividly this weekend because I gave up smoking on Friday. Lisa had her accident on Saturday. And my mother passed away on Sunday morning. There's no doubt in my mind this occurred the same weekend. |
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| Det. Carrasquillo: | So we're...we're talking November 17th, 18th, and 19th? |
| Chamberlain: | The day of her accident. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Was the 18th. |
| Chamberlain: | Right...yeah. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Let me ask you this, Let's just go back and cover that time period. |
| Chamberlain: | Okay. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | You said you were painting at the warehouse. |
| Chamberlain: | The warehouse. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | You left at 1:30 in the afternoon. |
| Chamberlain: | About 1:30...Uh Huh. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | You went up to Dunedin trying to get into the store. |
| Chamberlain: | Right. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Drove in...couldn't get in because there was some kind of parade... |
| Chamberlain: | We never found the store. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. And you drove back down to Lisa's apartment at 9...901 Osceola. |
| Chamberlain: | Osceola...Uh Huh. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | And around what time did you get there? |
| Chamberlain: | 2:30...probably about 2:30 is when we got over there. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Well, you left at 1...around 1:30 you left the warehouse. |
| Chamberlain: | Yeah...right. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | And you drove north. |
| Chamberlain: | Right. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | You were up there for a while and then you drove back...an hour. |
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| Chamberlain: | About an hour...yeah...because we drove around and around trying to find this Woolworth's Store and we never found it...so... |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | So let's say between 2:30 and a quarter till 3 you're at her apartment. |
| Chamberlain: | I'm at her apartment. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | And then there was no food there. You had to go out and get it. |
| Chamberlain: | She didn't have any... anything to drink and she didn't have anything like...you know...snack type foods. And so..and she wanted to take her vitamins and she didn't have any. So I said "Okay, let's get in the car" and we went down to Albertsons there on West Bay and that's what we got: She got some juice and some fruit, some bananas, and some vitamins. And she came back and I watched her take the vitamins. I watched her eat a banana. I watched her drink the glass of juice. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | And what time did you get back when she had the banana, the vitamins, and the glass of juice? |
| Chamberlain: | 3 or 3:15. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Did you spend anytime with her in the apartment there for a while? |
| Chamberlain: | Sure. I mean we...we umm...umm...I unpacked her clothes because she had unpacked from her trip and that.., cause that was laying on her bed and she wanted to take a nap. Obviously she was tired. So we. I straightened up everything for her. She was groggy...you know.., that...that |
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| sleepy kind of...you know...between...in between back and forth kind of grogginess. And so...you know...even to the point of saying "You can't hang that dress there because it can't be next to that other dress." And I'm going "Okay"...you know. "Where do you want it hung?"...you know.., and trying to get her pleased...you know. And then "Is this what you sleep in?" "Is this how...you want the air conditioner on...do you want the fan on...what do you want?" And then she said "Okay, I'm ready to take my nap" and laid down. And she said...I said "Do you want me to stay with you?" And she said "No." I said "Okay, when you wake up from your nap, call me" because I figured it'd be a couple of hours or whatever. "And I'll come back over and get you and we'll go pick up your car at the office." | |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. |
| Chamberlain: | And she said "Okay" and then she said "Thanks for doing all this for me." |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | What time did you leave her apartment? |
| Chamberlain: | Gosh...about 3:30...3:45. |
| Attorney Cacciatore: | A long time. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | I'm gonna turn off the tape at 1645. I'm flipping over to side two and still 1645 hours. SIDE TWO |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Side two.,. 1646. |
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| Attorney Cacciatore: | What we were talking about when my tape ended was...you know...what time it was that you were leaving Lisa's, |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh. |
| Attorney Cacciatore: | So if you'll just go back to that. |
| Chamberlain: | Uh...I think it was about 3:30... 3:45... somewhere in that range... time...maybe as late as 4 and I.. I don't really know...I didn't really look at the time. The only thing I know of is that then when I got home, my daughter and I were supposed to go take care of someone's cat who was gone for the Thanksgiving weekend, which this was the weekend right before Thanksgiving. So we drove right back down Ft. Harrison again to go back by the office. That's the way we drove to her house. And as we drove down Ft. Harrison, there was...a wreck had already occurred because there were cars stopped. It was kind of tangly...you know...getting through there. And then when I drove past the office, I looked and I said....to my daughter I said "Her car's not there...I wonder why her car is not there...it's really strange. So we went to go take care of the cat. We were gone maybe 15 or 20 minutes. Came back down. And by that time when I came back down again, I double checked to make sure I hadn't missed something. Her car was gone. And then I saw the...that boat...that truck..the truck with the boat and the engine on the back of it. And I didn't ever see Lisa's car but I saw that car and that trailer with the boat on it along the side of...over by the golf course right there. And when I got home...I hadn't been home very long when Benetta called |
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| me. And I asked her first thing...I said "I went by the office and Lisa's car wasn't there." She goes "Oh, I went and picked her up and took her over." I said "She didn't sleep very long." I said "That's.., that's not good she didn't sleep very long." She said "Well, I didn't have any idea you took her home...when did you take her home." And so we talked for a couple of minutes and she said "Yeah, I went to pick her up.. I made her put in her contacts because she didn't have her contacts in." And she said "And then we went down to pick her up." And then she said "I.. I don't have any books to read...if I had something to read maybe I'd fall asleep." And Benetta said "Follow me back to my house and...you know.. I'll get you some books." And Benetta called me from her house and said "Well...but she still haven't arrived here." She goes "This is very strange...there's something strange." She was on the phone with me,.. | |
| Agent Feola: | Waiting for Lisa to get to her house. |
| Chamberlain: | For Lisa to get to her house. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | I'm a little confused. Let's backtrack and make sure...let's start again. You left her house at 3:45...4:00?' |
| Chamberlain: | Yeah. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. You went home to your daughter's house,.. to your house with your daughter. |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | What time did you come back down towards your office? |
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| Chamberlain: | It was dusky time...! don't know. It was...you know.., sun going down...! don't know what time it was....5 maybe...maybe 5... |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | So it was about 5:00. And that's when you didn't notice Lisa's car at the office. |
| Chamberlain: | That's when I noticed her car was gone. And I went "that is very strange... how could her car be gone." And I thought well maybe somebody had gone to pick it up for her. And then when I got home and then Benetta called me... and the first thing I said to her was "I went by the office and Lisa's car is gone." She goes "Oh yeah, well I took her to get her car." |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Around what time did Benetta call you? |
| Chamberlain: | Well, if! left the house about 5... |
| Attorney Cacciatore: | Well let's do this... do you know? |
| Chamberlain: | No, I don't know what time she called. I just know when I got back to the house it wasn't but a few minutes and she called me. |
| Attorney Cacciatore: | , Do you have a clock next to your phone? Did you look at it at anytime? |
| Chamberlain: | No. I have a clock next to the phone but don't know that I looked at it. I didn't think about it. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | An...an educated guess. |
| Chamberlain: | I.. I don't know... 5:30. It wasn't very long. |
| Agent Feola: | When she's saying "Oh, Lisa is following me home to get her a book..." |
| Chamberlain: | Right. |
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| Agent Feola: | "But she hasn't gotten here yet...! don't know what's taking her...." |
| Chamberlain: | She goes "I don't know what's taking her so long." And she goes "I.. I better go...I'm gonna go get David...or I'm gonna go and we're gonna backtrack." She goes "Because now I'm worried." |
| Agent Feola: | Do you know what Benetta was doing that day other than...? |
| Chamberlain: | She was at winter wonderland. |
| Agent Feola: | She was helping paint. |
| Chamberlain: | Yeah, she stayed there most of the day that I know of. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | So she went to get Lisa to come back and work at the winter wonderland? |
| Chamberlain: | No, I don't know how...Lisa either called Benetta...either Benetta was home or Lisa... Benetta...Lisa called her on her car phone." Benetta just told me that "Lisa called me and asked me if I'd come over and get her so she could go pick up her car and I said sure, I'll come over and pick you up to go pick up your car." And then that's when that happened. That's all I know. I don't know how she called her and talked to her. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | While you were with her that Saturday, throughout the course of the conversations Fri... Saturday and also Friday night... the time that you spent with her.., did Lisa at any point in time tell you she wanted to leave the church? |
| Chamberlain: | No...never. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Did.., did that conversation ever come up between you and Lisa at any other time? |
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| Chamberlain: | , Never. |
| Agent Feola: | How about...let's go over her behavior. |
| Chamberlain: | Okay. |
| Agent Feola: | Katie...from the time that you...or when you first observed / this...maybe it was prior to her leaving for Orlando. |
| Chamberlain: | Well; prior to her leaving for Orlando...! know she had been not sleeping well...okay...I know that. And she had told me she wasn't getting but about five hours of sleep, which...you know...you can survive on five hours of sleep. It's not optimum...you know...it's not the best. She was emotional, which was very unusual for Lisa... emotional in terms of like she'd burst into tears. And that was very unusual for her. |
| Agent Feola: | Depressed? |
| Chamberlain: | I don't know if it was depressed but it was just like a mood swing kind of thing. She'd be okay and I'd noticed it...like she got really angry on the phone with a client while I was in her office. We were working on a pass due collection thing. She got very angry. I'd never seen her...never heard her talk like that to a client. |
| Agent Feola: | Can you give us an example? |
| Chamberlain: | Well, it was like she was just saying "Well, I..."...you know "You needed to.."' You mean like how she talked versus how she talked before...? |
| Agent Feola: | Uh Huh. |
| Chamberlain: | Okay. Well, you...you have to understand Lisa was probably the most outgoing person I know. You know...she was fearless in that regard...it was like...you know.., she...we'd |
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| walk into a restaurant and sit down to eat and she'd introduce herself to the waiter...you know. It was like"! want to make sure I know who you are and you're gonna treat me good and I'm gonna be really nice to you." That's the way she was..very personable. | |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Very extroverted? |
| Chamberlain: | Very extroverted. So she would just talk to people...you know. And then these people would just talk back to her because that's the way she was. She could make friends instantly. So...you know...she'd been a sales person for so long. I mean I'd seen her pick up the phone and have...have...have someone tell her "No" and...you know "I'm not buying" you know "Da..Da..Da..Da." And she'd "Okay" and hang up the phone. She'd pick up the phone again and call somebody else. It didn't bother her...you know. It just...she just kept after it and she was always very very happy or very...you know...jovial... |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | So that was out of her character what she did that day? |
| Chamberlain: | So...yeah...I mean...so then she yelled at this...this client...this is somebody that number one she'd worked with for a number of years...and it was just...! couldn't believe it. Of course, he was yelling back at her...you know. I could hear it from her talking on the phone just in the office. I could hear him too and they were yelling back and forth about "I sent that check" "No, you didn't..." You know...and I'm going "Oh my gosh." And so then when we got off the phone, I said...I was kinda flabbergasted...I said "We have |
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| to handle...you can't talk to your clients like that...! don't care who they are...you know." "That's not okay...we've got to collect the money...we can't make them so mad that we never get the money." And she goes "Oh..yeah...yeah." Well, then the client called back within an hour and said "Oh, I was just in a bad mood...I'm sorry and I'll put the check in the mail." I mean it was very...but...you know...it was like...it was very strange back and forth. | |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Did you write a report regarding that incident? |
| Chamberlain: | No. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. I just want to touch back on the report. The one that you...you did write a report... |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | For November 18th. Correct? |
| Chamberlain: | Right. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | How many pages was it? |
| Chamberlain: | Umm...I don't know. Maybe a couple. The thing was I actually talked to someone at the church at that time, so all I do is write up some of the other things that I had remembered. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay. Yeah; let's get back to that. What else did you observe? |
| Chamberlain: | So then the only things I observed were...like I said, she burst into tears for no reason...you know. It was just kinda like....she said she just hadn't been sleeping well. So she was tired and we talked about that. And I knew she was going to this convention and we talked about some of the |
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| things that were gonna happen. And I said "Are you sure physically you feel okay to go?" Because working those conventions is a lot of work because you're on your feet most of the time and you're...you're all day long working with these guys. And so she said "Yeah" and...and we even talked about "Make sure you take your vitamins and make sure you do this...make sure you get plenty of rest." She was gonna be rooming with Brenda. I said "Brenda, make sure she gets plenty of rest because if she doesn't she's just gonna be worn out." So she seemed happy...she seemed...you know...she seemed at times okay. And at other times she didn't. | |
| Agent Feola: | How about that Saturday? |
| Chamberlain: | And then,., so that Saturday when I walked up to her, she seemed really foggy...you know. And so that's why I talked to her and she said she hadn't gotten a lot of sleep and she was really mentally tired but not physically. So I took that to be that she had not slept and...you know...it's kinda like going in and out almost...you know...you...it was like lucid and then not lucid. I mean..like to take for example..,one of the points was she'd been painting something... she was painting it and I looked over and she was still painting the same side. It was like...it was a big four posted thing...you know...a four sided post like a fence post. I said "Well, paint one of the' others." And she was like "Oh...okay." So she turned it and painted it. I mean...but...you...but then she'd sit down and she ate din...lunch with us. We sat down and her and Benetta and I ate lunch. We were the only people |
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| thereat lunch time, so we sat down and ate lunch. And then... | |
| Attorney Cacciatore: | What'd you eat? |
| Chamberlain: | Chicken. We all went to Kentucky Fried Chicken and bought chicken for us and she ate. I mean I didn't even know she wasn't wearing her contacts until we were in the car. And we were in the car and we're at the store. And I said "Do you see anything?" She was like squinting real hard. I said "What are you doing?" She said "I don't have my contacts." And I go "What...why didn't you tell me?' You know..."It's not gonna be...you know...okay, that's fine..just sit there,..I'll see if I can find the store." |
| Agent Feola: | Okay. What other behavior Katie do you recall? |
| Chamberlain: | We were in the car and she said...she said something. ,.she made some comment...we were laughing about something. She said "Why, it's as plain as the end of my nose." And we laughed. And I glanced over and she was looking cross eyed. And I said "What are you doing?" And I said "What are you doing?" She goes "I'm trying to see the end of my nose." And I laughed but she didn't laugh. I thought "Now that's pretty strange." It was just odd behavior...strange...not normal. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | When you went down to the...to the church, you said you spoke to somebody. |
| Chamberlain: | Yes. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Who did you speak to? |
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| Chamberlain: | She,...I don't know her name. But she is the quality control manager. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | And that's the same person you gave your report to? |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh....that I wrote my report to. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Who asked you to write a report? |
| Chamberlain: | She did. She said "Well..you know...maybe you should write up the things that you know...some things that.., anything you observed." And...you know... |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | So the request didn't come from Brenda Hubert or Benetta? |
| Chamberlain: | To write it up... no...! don't think so...no... |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. Do you know the circumstances surrounding Gloria Cruz living with Lisa? |
| Chamberlain: | I know she lived with her...Uh Huh. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Do you know why she moved in with Lisa? |
| Chamberlain: | Umm..,she wanted to have some space of her own that was that was inexpensive. And I know that her and Lisa traded...Lisa traded her lower rent for Gloria doing things for her like her laundry and running errands for her. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | So she moved in with...with... |
| Chamberlain: | Lisa. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | With Lisa. |
| Chamberlain: | Got a two bedroom apartment. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Right. And she didn't pay rent and in return... |
| Chamberlain: | No, she paid a lowered rent...like some really lowered rent. But they had worked out some kind of agreement that she...you know.,..but Lisa...see, you have to understand Lisa was not the type of person that would ever do anything |
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| herself. She didn't cook. She didn't clean. All her clothes went to the drycleaners. She'd pay people to do it because she made good money and that was her thing "I pay people to take care of me...! don't do that stuff." | |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Well, wasn't Gloria living with Benetta though? |
| Chamberlain: | She had been...yeah. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Rent free? |
| Chamberlain: | I don't know if she was... |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Step... stepdaughter...right? |
| Chamberlain: | Yeah, she's a stepdaughter. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | So it had to be pretty cheap rent. |
| Chamberlain: | Well no, I.. I don't remember where she was living before that point. I...I'd have to really stop and think about it because she'd lived a couple different places. I just know that she wanted to move out but she couldn't move out completely on her own because she couldn't afford the rent. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | How'd you hear about Lisa's death and the circumstances surrounding the same. |
| Chamberlain: | Umm...David came into my office and told me that one of the chaplains of the church wanted to speak to us to give us an update on Lisa. So we went over to the church and spoke to the chaplain there. I went with Dee Dee McKay...Shirley McKay. And we didn't have any idea. We just thought "Oh good, we're gonna get some firsthand news.., this will be good, right." And so we spoke to him separately and he told me. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Which chaplain? |
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| Chamberlain: | Umm...I don't know his name... sorry. I probably could find out his name but I don't know... |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Well, we're talking about a friend of yours from Texas.,.a long-time friend.., and somebody tells you that she passed away...and you don't remember his name? |
| Chamberlain: | I.. I tell you...when...when he...I'd never really met him before. So when he told me...! mean...I...I just burst into tears. I wasn't coherent at that point. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. I know I asked you earlier if you had been down to the Ft. Harrison between the 18th of November and the...the 5th of December. But do you know of anyone else who went down there or might have information of what occurred down there? |
| Chamberlain: | No, I...! don't know of anybody that actually saw her or...you know...during that time period. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay.' Have you heard of an introspection rundown? |
| Chamberlain: | I've heard about it. I don't know a lot about it. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | You...you're... do you know anything about it at all...anything at all that might enlighten me? |
| Chamberlain: | I..I've read a little.., a little bit but not very much. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Probably more than I know. |
| Chamberlain: | It's something...you know.., it's like when...one of the things that happens is when you go in for counseling and your...you know...program is laid out...it's decided...you know...it doesn't...if it's not your program,' then it's not something you'd normally know about. I never had an |
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| introspection rundown, so it's not something I would have looked at or thought about. | |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Is that something that you would do in conjunction with the O/W's...overts and withholds? |
| Chamberlain: | What I would do in conjunction with O/W's? |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | An introspection rundown.... |
| Chamberlain: | I don't...no, it's not something you would do in conjunction with that. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Did you work with Lisa on O/W's? |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh...sure. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Can we talk about that? |
| Chamberlain: | Sure...absolutely. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | What were her O/W's? |
| Chamberlain: | Well...I mean...do you understand what O/W's are...overts and withholds? |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | I have a little idea but... |
| Chamberlain: | Okay. |
| Agent Feola: | When you're not being honest to yourself. |
| Chamberlain: | Well yeah...! mean basically everybody has their own set of moral codes...you know...that's either for themselves or the groups that they're in..you know...like...you know.., as being part of your job. There's certain things you're supposed to do and certain things you're not supposed to do. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Right. |
| Chamberlain: | Just offhand. A person has their own set of things and what they feel are...are okay and not okay. When a person..you know...doesn't do that or does something against |
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| that...either because they do it or because they don't do something....like sometimes they should do something and they don't do it, then that is an overt...! mean it's a an act that is a harmful act... either to themselves...to other people...to other things...right. And once that harmful act is committed... I mean.., a person can build those up over time and they're real easy to do...you know. I ran that red light...I..you know...! didn't stop fully or...you know...I mailed that check late and they called me and I said no, it was put in the mail early. People can do all sorts of things, which then... after a given period of time can lessen their ability to communicate with other people or be happier in their...you know...just in their own personal lives. So what happened was she then had talked about writing O/W's because she was having trouble at work with her sales. Umm...she was also...felt that she was having personal problems...she wasn't as happy as she felt she should be. And so she wanted to write O/W's. And I said Well, great...that's a... that's a real good thing to do...it's always a good thing to do" you know. You write that stuff up... get rid of it...it's over with. | |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | What were her O/W's that she wrote up? |
| Chamberlain: | I.. I don't remember exactly...exactly what she wrote up. But I know that it would be things like...you know...the things that she felt were against...you know... |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Yeah, but you worked with her on these, didn't you? |
| Chamberlain: | Yeah. |
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| Det. Carrasquillo: | Didn't you sit down and talk to her and communicate with her? |
| Chamberlain: | I read her O/W's but it wasn't something I read for content...I read for...to make sure that she...you know.., this was the stuff...here's...you know...the stuff...they weren't like tremendous amounts of justifications on why it was okay to have done this or...you know...it was like what had she actually done that she was writing...you know...writing about. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | I understand you're telling me that it could be something very insignificant that builds up... |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | But it could also be something very significant. |
| Chamberlain: | True. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | And I'm trying to find out if hers was significant and it might have led to her mental breakdown. And you...you have inside knowledge because you worked with her. |
| Chamberlain: | Right. Well, no...! don't know.., they weren't significant to that point...okay...that I think.. I know that...you know...one of the things that happens is you...you write up until you feel better about that...you know. If you're writing up about because my marriage is going bad and I want to write up the things that...you know.., maybe I've done and never told my husband about. You feel better after that...you know. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Well, what did she specifically write about? |
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| Chamberlain: | About the fact that there were...let's see...there were a couple of times when she had given extra dated payment terms to clients that were against our...you know.., so...you don't really... |
| Agent Feola: | That she bent the rules a little bit. |
| Chamberlain: | Yeah.., the invoice on this...we'll wait a week...we'll wait two weeks. And so then it ended up we had to...you know.., they were put into something without being paid, which is one of our big things we don't do. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | So she did somebody a favor and extended their billing date? |
| Chamberlain: | Right. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Well, wouldn't that be something good? |
| Chamberlain: | Well no, it's one of the rules of our company that we don't deliver our product until it's been paid for. |
| Agent Feola: | And in other words, it's like when you go to the dentist office, you pay today. |
| Chamberlain: | Yeah. She bent the rules but to her it's... it's like to me and you maybe it wasn't an overt...maybe it wasn't something overt. To her, she felt it was and so she wrote it up. It was what she wrote up. It wasn't whether I thought it was an overt. It was just that she wrote it up. And so my role in that was to look them over, read them, and then give them back to her. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Are those...are those documented and put into the church folder? |
| Chamberlain: | They can be...yeah. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Do you know if hers were? |
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| Chamberlain: | I don't know personally. I know that what happens is that...you know.., she has them and she can give them to the church. More than likely...yes. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | More than likely they should be in her folder. |
| Chamberlain: | I guess..yes |
| Agent Feola: | Alright. And how about any auditing sessions that she was receiving around that time? |
| Chamberlain: | She wasn't receiving auditing sessions when I was working with her on the O/W's. |
| Agent Feola: | That was just prior to her accident? |
| Chamberlain: | Right. |
| Agent Feola: | At or around the same time? |
| Chamberlain: | Before. We ended up before she went to the convention. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay. How about her behavior at that time? |
| Chamberlain: | Sporadic...you know. It was very up and down...up and down emotionally. |
| Agent Feola: | How about any courses that she had.., specifically called OT hatting. Do you know of her being involved in being in any of her courses? |
| Chamberlain: | No. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. Did you attend her clearing ceremony? |
| Chamberlain: | When she was awarded her certificate...yeah. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | What was she like at that point in time? Was she...you know... |
| Chamberlain: | Very excited...very happy...very outgoing. |
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| Det. Carrasquillo: | And that...that was in October was it? You remember when that was? |
| Chamberlain: | Yeah...October I think. I don't really remember the date that we went. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | So in October she was really.. everything was really fine...she was real happy... |
| Chamberlain: | Uh Huh. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Everything was going good. And less than a month later she's having all these problems? |
| Chamberlain: | Yeah. Well, maybe more than a month...I don't know, I don't remember the exact day. I don't remember if it was the end of September or the first of October when she did that...I...I don't know,..! don't know any way I would know that. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | So let's say within two months and a month this is declining. Did you notice it? Was it a gradual thing because you worked and you...you know...you spoke to her a lot. Was it a.gradual thing or did it come on....? |
| Chamberlain: | Part of it was that, when she came back and she went back to umm...she was doing magazine or magazine type sales...and she went back to selling the agent's markup...which is the card pack. She umm...you know, it was hard because...you know...you go back in and you've got to start...not over because she still had lots of her clients...but it was not something that she'd been working at for weeks and weeks and weeks. And she told me...you know...it was like a little tough getting into the groove of |
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| being at work everyday and...you know.., being there for eight hours and that sort of thing... for her. | |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | I know you...you told me you didn't go down to the Ft. Harrison... |
| Chamberlain: | Right. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | However, did you take Lisa back to her apartment sometime between November 18th and December 5th? Did you ever have an occasion to drive her back to her apartment and get something? |
| Chamberlain: | No. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Maybe picked her up out front and drove her? Do you know of anybody who had an occasion to take her back to her apartment? |
| Chamberlain: | I never heard of any such thing...no. |
| Agent Feola: | So the last time that you saw Lisa McPherson was on the 18th of November 1995? |
| Chamberlain: | When I dropped... |
| Agent Feola: | When you dropped her off after getting the vitamins and all that? |
| Chamberlain: | The last time I saw her. |
| Agent Feola: | And you weren't at all curious that Saturday night or Sunday where she was? |
| Chamberlain: | Well yeah, I was extremely curious...yeah. Benetta had called me and...and...and told me what had happened...you know. But it was like there wasn't anything physically that I could do. It wasn't something that I was qualified for, so |
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| there wasn't any point in me being there adding confusion to the situation. | |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. What was your understanding of...of the circumstances surrounding the death of Lisa? |
| Chamberlain: | As far as to what happened? |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Uh Huh. |
| Chamberlain: | Umm...well...that she had had a blood clot that...it was first suspected that there was a blood clot. And they didn't know because they hadn't.., the autopsy hadn't been done in the' beginning. And there could've been other things...viral infection...whatever. But then when the autopsy came out, that's..that's what we were told...that it was a blood clot. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Who...who told you that? |
| Chamberlain: | I don't remember who told me. Maybe it was Benetta. I don't remember who told me that. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Just...just out of curiosity...and you don't have to answer that if you don't want to...but are all the employees for AMC Publishing Scientologists? |
| Chamberlain: | Not to my knowledge they aren't. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | About how many employees do you have there? Do you know? |
| Chamberlain: | About 30...31...we've got some part-time people too. |
| Agent Feola: | Most of the ones though that came from Dallas and... |
| Chamberlain: | Well, all the ones that came from Dallas are Scientologists. We've known each other for a long time. We knew each other in Dallas for a long time...so we're all real good friends. |
| Agent Feola: | Did you attend Lisa's memorial service in Dallas? |
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| Chamberlain: | No. |
| Agent Feola: | Do you'know who did from the Clearwater area? |
| Chamberlain: | I know Benetta and Brenda went. |
| Agent Feola: | Anyone else? |
| Chamberlain: | No, I don't know who else. We were told ,that there was gonna be a service here, so we had a service here for her too. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | That's it. You have any other questions? |
| Agent Feola: | No. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | I'm gonna go ahead and conclude this interview at 1710 hours. |
Ofc. Reporting Det. Jorge Carrasguillo/elg ID No. 630 Case Status Active Date Cleared _____________ Clearance Type Exception Type 1. Arrest 1. Extradition declined 3. Death of Offender 2. Adult Juvenile 2. AR of primary offense, 4. V/W refused to cooperate 3. Unfounded secondary offense, 5. Prosecution declined w/o prosecution 6. Juv/No Custody Ofc. Reviewing Date 5A0 Info