Interview with Bonnie Portolano
| Date: | April 2, 1996 |
| Pages: | 26 |
INVESTIGATOR: Det. Ron Sudler
This is going to be a taped interview in reference to Report #95-29158. The interview is being conducted with Bonnie Portolano...P 0 R TO L A N 0...a paramedic for Sunstar Ambulance. Today's date is 4/2/96. The time of the interview is 1415 hours. Present during the interview is myself (Det. Ron Sudler) and Bonnie Portolano.
| Det. Sudler: | Bonnie, as we've discussed previously, on the 14th of March I conducted an interview with you concerning some involvement that you had with a Lisa McPherson. We're conducting a death investigation concerning this case involving Lisa McPherson. And I understand that, on November the 18th, you had an occasion to tend to Lisa McPherson at an accident scene. Is that correct? |
| Portolano: | That's correct. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Umm...on the 14th, we kinda discussed in detail what you did out there.. how you...you know...became in contact with her ,through her...you know... investigation out there. And...and I'd like to if you will just kinda take it from the top about how you were at the intersection where this accident had occurred and what transpired while.you were at the scene. |
| Portolano: | Initially, my partner and I responded to a motor vehicle accident at the intersection of Belleview and Ft. Harrison. And the Clearwater Fire Department was receiving refusals from the patients there involved in that accident. My partner and I were standing there speaking with the Fire Department when another accident occurred at that intersection. At that time, -. ,. the Fire Department asked us to go ahead and get refusals from that accident because it was just a bump. It was nothing serious. Obviously, someone was paying attention to the accident and not the road. And there was just a little run-in there. |
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| At that point, I ran and umm...got a report out of the ambulance. And my partner and I walked over, spoke to the man who was Vehicle #1. He was struck in the rear. And he...he was...he had no injuries. I rece...I retained...obtained a refusal from him. Then I went over to the woman. There was a woman... she was approximately I guess 5'8"...5'9"...of healthy stature, clear complexion, blonde hair... umm... attractive lady. And I had her...1 asked her if she had injury...any injuries. And umm...again I want to stress at this time that we come across people at high stress times and so their mannerisms aren't the norm sometimes. They're going through a lot of emotions. This could be their only mode of. transportation and they're thinking, about the insurance rates and "Oh my gosh.. look what I did". So we're used to dealing with some unusual behavior from people on an MVA. And she had clearly run into the back of this...this gentleman. And she seemed to be sorrowful for what she had.. you know... and she was like "I'm...I'm sorry". I asked her if she's okay. She said "I'm fine". I said "Do you have any injuries?"... "No, I do not". She spoke in a very umm... formal programmed type tone. And uh... I was attributing all of this to maybe a shock state of "Oh my gosh...look what I did". And umm...she she appeared...she appeared to be okay at that time. And umm... right about then before I had her sign the refusal; a police officer came over and aid he needed her to move her vehicle because they were still in the center lane umm... next to the double yellow line in the...in traffic. So I turned to her and I said "Lisa, could you move your car from here to over there?" She |
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| that address". I said "How...are.."...you know... So I found out that she's new to the area. She told me that, if I mailed it to this Texas address, she would still get it...somehow she would get it. Umm.. although I didn't need to mail her anything. Umm... I said "Well..."...you know... "Can you...can you think...can you remember your address where you're at?" "No, I cannot". She said "1 can take you there but I don't know what it is". So I thought okay... you know...she's a transient person..she just got here.umm...this will be fine. It was just a refusal. I didn't need the address for anything...you know. We weren't gonna be sending her a bill. So umm...1 went ahead and... and got a refusal from her. Umm...at that point, the police officer comes over and is... is trying to decide umm...no, let me think...no, that...that's not true. That happened later. I got the refusal from her. My partner and I started to walk back to the ambulance.and umm...her mannerisms were such..they were just a little off but not'enough that would umm...you know... say take extreme measures at that time...just attribute it to the accident. My partner looked to me as we were walking back to the ambulance and says "Well, this is our crazy call of the day"...you know. It was like okay, we got that one out of the way cause things were just a little off...mainly because the call started out at one thing and ended up to be another. Umm...yet it wasn't over yet. We got into the ambulance. We notified head... umm... our Communications Center that we were available. And my partner looks in his side mirror...he's the driver.' And he tells me "Bonnie, she's taking off her clothes". I said "No, she's not". He goes "1 am not lying".. And sure enough, she came |
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| two seconds later she came walking down beside our ambulance walking straight ahead...she wasn't stopping at the ambulance...without a stitch of clothing on. So my partner in the meantime went ahead to radio our Communications Center and let them know we're not finished here. At thattime, I got'out to get her because she's in traffic without any clothing on. So I brought her... as I was bringing her towards the ambulance, I said "Lisa..."...you know..."Come here... come on". And she followed me...1 had her arm. And umm...1 said "What are you doing...why did you take off all your clothes?" And she says "Well, you see, nobody knows this but I'm an OT". And that...at that time, we went ahead and we stepped on in the ambulance. I...1 had no clue what an OT was. I didn't care and my main goal was to get her out of traffic so we didn't cause another accident and umm...to get her in where I could have like some control over the situation ...what was going on. Umm...at that point...you know... I was just asking Lisa...you know... "Why did you take off all your clothes...what's up?" And she says "Well, I wanted people to think I was crazy because I want help". So, at that point we began talking about help ..you'know...what...what's wrong and...you know... just a multitude of questions. And basically her answers were "I'm a bad person". AndI asked her... you know "Why do you think you're a bad person?" And she says "I...because I...1 found out I'm having bad thoughts.....I'm.....I'm doing.. bad things.inmy_mind". And umm...so we kinda talked about just very surface stuff...you know...about...1 tried to get "What are you doing in your mind?" and little things and...and and wouldn't..'.she wouldn't offer much in that way. |
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| I had laid her down and put a sheet over top of her. And uh... the police officers came in with her... her garments and...and gave them to us. And they said they'd be waiting outside... to see what we were gonna do with this as far as transporting.. possible Baker Act...we didn't know. So umm...oh, let's see...she went...she went on saying the main thing that.. that she had done wrong was that "She took her eyes off the object". And that...that's a quote...you know..."I took my eyes off the object". That seemed to be a really big thing for her. Umm...1 don't know what object it was. Umm...1 don't know when...was it in church or what. Umm...at that point I didn't know she was a Scientologist. Umm...a police officer stepped in and asked what she wanted him to do with her car. And umm...so she said "Can you have it towed to the address?" Because it became apparent we were gonna take her. I had told the police officers we were gonna take her but I didn't know if I needed them because, if she would go voluntarily, I did not need a Baker Act. If she wasn't going to go voluntarily, I did need a Baker Act because obviously she needed to go... she needed help. So she told the police officer that she would like it towed to... she gave an address and it was on Osceola. That was a flag to me I'm dealing with a Scientologist. So she gave the address and the police officer said "Okay,. fine". She said "But you have to make sure it gets into a specific parking space". I'm not sure which one it was. The police officer said, "We can't guarantee that" and she seemed to be troubled by that because it had to go in the right spot. So she said "Can you call my girlfriend?". |
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| Let me take a drink real quick (PAUSE WHILE SHE TAKES A DRINK). So she gave a name and a phone number of her girlfriend. She said "My girlfriend will come and pick it up and she'll put it where it needs to go". Umm...we didn't think anything about that either. So umm... the police officer took that information and he was still waiting outside the ambulance. Urnm...Lisa said she did want help. Umm...she said "I'm tired". She would keep closing her eyes and umm...just tuning me out...tuning everything out. And I would take that opportunity.her...those long pauses to think about what she said placed together. I did ask her "Are you a Scientologist?" once she gave the address. And she said "Yes, I am". Umm..she closed her eyes, so I...1 just kinda thought where am I gonna go with this...how am I...how...how am I gonna approach her with this. So my approach was just to get her to. talk a little more. The only way I could get her to talk once she closed her eyes and she's totally tuned me out...she's totally tuned my partner out...1 could ask her a question but she wouldn't answer unless I said "Lisa, open your eyes". Her eyes would pop wide open... she'd look directly at me...and she'd say "Okay, I'll answer however you want me...I'll answer... I've answered all your questions". And umm. .so I would just ask questions that umrn. .now I can't remember them. I didn't,think they were like really that -. important...wouldbe.that important later. But they were basically questions of her feelings...her emotions...umm...why...you know...why...what brought her to this point..little things like this. And..and mainly she would go off on these long tangents. Umm... |
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| one of them specifically I remember telling Det. Sudler was she went on this long thing on how she was a bad person because she.did not do the dishes before she went to bed and she has a roommate. And there was more to this dishes story, but I wasn't paying attention to that because I knew it wasn't...that wasn't gonna help me with what I was dealing with right there. I was more or less listening to what she was saying but only pulling out the things that I could come back and re-direct with. Umm...so out of the dishes question... the dishes story.. I did come up with a question or a statement or something that made her reflect upon herself and give me an answer because.. I know that because my partner stated after the call was over "God, you're good". He said "How did you get that out of I didn't do the dishes?" He goes "I would've never done that" ..you know...got..pulled that question out of there... Umm...1 was just linking together little things that she was saying. Umm... so basically what it came down to was Lisa said she wanted help. She knew she needed rest. And umm...she knew she couldn't.she couldn't do what she's doing now. She...she needed someone in her words to talk to... "I need someone to talk to". And I'm an ambulance...1...i told her I couldn't stay on scene and talk but I can take her to a place where they would listen and umm. and they would...you know... "You could talk to them... is this what you want?" And she said "Yes". But... but initially she was like "No, no, no...I'm okay". But I told her umm..you know.. "It sounds like you've got a lot going on" and that "It would be good for you to take time now and talk". Because she had |
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| stated that she wanted to talk but maybe not at this time. Uh...but she kept saying "She's so worn down... She's so tired" And I would have to keep pulling her back open...to open her eyes. And I just "Lisa, can you open your eyes?" Umm...at...sometimes I would ask her a question and she'll say "I don't know the answer to that right now, could you ask me again?" And I'd ask her right again and umm...she'd answer it. Uh...it just seemed really odd that sometimes she would pull up some information and sometimes it wasn't available even only it's a couple seconds apart. Uh..so then when I asked her for her address...although she...she did give the police officer her address... she could remember it then...and she gave it to me. the Osceola Clearwater address. Ummm... so something- was going on in her mental processing that...that wasn't giving her...she wasn't having access to information as she wanted it. It was only made available to her at certain times because some simple questions she would say "I don't know the answer' to that right now" or "I don't have the answer.. can you ask me again?" I asked her again and sometimes still not. I asked her again.there it was. Umm... Lisa wanted help.. We took her to Morton Plant Hospital. They do have a...that is an appropriate facility to take a patient that possibly needs to be...have a psych evaluation., And umrn...cause they do have a Psych p unit. She was willing' to go there. She wanted help. We took her there. I took great interest in Lisa because she seemed to have a.. a... there was just something about her.,..something special about her. I don't know how to describe it...as |
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| charisma or a zest...something. And I really wanted to see Lisa get' help. We went to Morton Plant. I gave my report to the nurse. The... the nurse took the report well. She understood everything I was saying. Umm... she understood that Lisa was a Scientologist and... and all the things that Lisa was saying...how she wanted to talk... that she did want help and she does need rest. Umm...and I did tell her most of this story. Uh... it was at that time that uh... that was the last time that I saw,Lisa. Umm...a few weeks later though, I did see that nurse again in Morton Plant Emergency Room. And the nurse had told me that Lisa had died at New Port Richey Hospital of a pulmonary embolism. And that...1 was just kind of torn apart because...because umm...I had wanted her to do well. I wanted more for Lisa. Umm...1 did transport into Morton Plant later that very same night of the incident that I took Lisa there. And I was told that she was no longer there..that the Scientologists..a group of Scientologists had showed up at the Emergency Room. And I attribute that to the police officers calling the girlfriend to come and get the car. So I'm sure they. found out where she was and why.' And umm...the...the nurse said that the doctor turned the patient over to the Scientologists and the Scientologists said that they would watch her. Umm..I was very disturbed by. this...ummm..because I have some counseling background. I was hoping that she could resolve some issues that were in her because obviously she was stirred up emotionally and confused. Umm... but to me, it |
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| seemed to turn her back over to the source of her confusion was...would be the same as a batt... me bring...bringing a battered wife and the husband showing up in the Emergency Room saying "Oh no no...don't treat her...she's okay...I'll watch her and make sure she's okay". You're' sending her right back to the source. I was very frustrated and disturbed that it was out of my hands. There was nothing more I could've done at that time...and was very saddened by it when I heard she had died. | |
| Det. Sudler: | Alright. Okay. Bonnie; umm...you keep referring to an accident that you went... I've got a copy of a driver's exchanger information of a traffic.crash...umm...that was done on the 18th of November at 5:50 p.m. at S. Ft. Harrison Avenue and Belleview Boulevard in which Lisa McPherson and another driver, Joseph McDonald, were involved in a traffic accident' at that location. Umm...is that consistent with the times and the dates of the accident that you're referring to? |
| Portolano: | , Yes. |
| Det. Sudler: | The vehicles involved...for Lisa was a...a Jeep vehicle, and the other one was a pickup truck. Is that pretty much accurate? |
| Portolano: | That's right, and... |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay:. |
| Portolano: | The pickup truck was pulling a boat. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Pulling a boat. |
| Portolano: | Uh Huh. ,... |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. And you mentioned that you had a partner with you that night on your ambulance crew. |
| Portolano: | Yes. |
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| Det. Sudler: | Who was...who was your partner? |
| Portolano: | His name is Mark...strange last name...Fabryani or Fabry...it...1 don't have the proper spelling. It's a real long odd name. But his first name is Mark. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. |
| Portolano: | I've only worked with him one or two times. |
| Det. Sudler: | And he was the E.M.T. assigned to your unit? |
| Portolano: | Yes. |
| Det. Sudler: | And we could get his information from the ambulance office? |
| Portolano: | Right. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Umm...when you first met Lisa out at the scene...umm...your primary concern would've been to check and treat any physical injuries she might have sustained. Did she present to you any physical injuries at all? |
| Portolano: | Initially we'd go through the whole umm...you know... I'd look at her car to see...you know...there was' no windshield damage...no interior damage...nothing like that. I asked her did she hit her head. Though she presented with no bruising on her face...no markings at all, you still want to ask. Umm... she said "No, I did not". Umm...she did...she stated that she did have her seatbelt on. Umm...so no neck pain...no back pain. I went through all of that before I got a refusal. And also, as she was uh... you know...very...she didn't have a stitch on in my ambulance as... she.....and also as she was walking down the street there was nothing obvious. There was no bruising...no...no old bruising..umm...no scratches... umm. .nothing.,..nothing of that...contusions... hematoses...nothing like that was noted on her.. She |
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| seemed to be in perfect health, good, condition... umm...all of her skin was intact. | |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Umm...did you get to see her vehicle that night at all? |
| Portolano: | I saw it at the scene. |
| Det. Sudler: | At the scene? |
| Portolano: | Uh Huh. |
| Det. Sudler: | You saw the damage to the vehicle? |
| Portolano: | Yeah. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. I've got a polaroid photograph that I took sometime later of her vehicle. Is that damage to the red Jeep on the grill area... is that a fair and accurate representation of the damage that night? |
| Portolano: | Yeah...on this grill...what happened was the prop of the boat just kinda went through the grill. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. |
| Portolano: | And that was it. |
| Det. Sudler: | So from.your experience, a...a front end impact of that nature would pretty much be classified as a minor traffic accident? |
| Portolano: | Very...yeah. |
| Det. Sudler: | Umm...would that be the type of accident that someone would sustain...you know... severe injury from or. or would present with multiple injuries from an impact like that? |
| Portolano: | From an impact like that, no...especially since the...the... it was traffic hour as you stated the time...you know. That's...so all the traffic... there was a lot of traffic on the road, so there was no opportunity.f or cars, to be flying or whizzing by. And there was a light...you know...right there. So it was just a. .a small little punch of a prop |
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| going through a grill and nothing more. | |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. So physically she was okay? |
| Portolano: | Yes, she was. |
| Det. Sudler: | Now, you did mention that she had some I guess emotional problems...maybe some...you know... mental problems or at least...you know...some symptoms that may have' been shock or other things that kinda presented to you that...that evening. Uh...with all that was said to you, did she indicate that she had a particular problem with any...you know...person or individual...umm...that she was afraid of or...you know...any reason why she had mentioned that she was so tired? |
| Portolano: | She... |
| Det. Sudler: | Did she elaborate on that? |
| Portolano: | She...she didn't elaborate on why she was tired. Umm...she didn't...she...most...most of this was internal...umm...stress I should say, because it wasn't that the church was doing things to her. It was that the church was presenting to her things that she had done wrong that she didn't know. She said "I didn't know I was doing these things wrong". And she so much wanted to be in compliance with the church and she was so it seemed, grief stricken, that she was out of line. Umm... that "Oh my gosh...." sort of like "Oh my gosh, look... look how bad I am... they've just told me I'm doing this, this, and this wrong". So she wasn't so much...it wasn't . towards any certain person. It was that she was internalizing of "Oh gosh, I'm so bad".. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Umm...did she talk about her performance at work or her performance in the church?. |
| Portolano: | I asked her what she' did because for some reason |
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| I.. I don't know why.. I did get her work address and her work phone number. That's something I never do. I shouldn't say never. Umm... I've done... I've been a paramedic for two years. I've only done it a handful of times. I got Lisa's work address and work phone number because I so cared about her for some reason that I...1 was hoping to contact her after this...after she got out to see if she was okay. She said she worked for a publishing company and she liked what she was doing. Umm...that's... that's all I...that's all I know. Umm.. I remember it was on Lakeview. | |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. She didn't mention that she was under any particular stress from work or..or anything? |
| Portolano: | Stress from work didn't exist as far as she... she just ex...she expressed I guess enjoyment. She liked what she was doing career-wise. Det. Sudler:. Okay. Umm...so she had no physical marks on her resulting from the accident.. Her basic presentation to you was somebody that might be in need of...you know...a psychiatric evaluation. |
| Portolano: | Right...right. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Umm...with your medical experience and your training...umm...do you believe that, if she had not been transported to a facility, that she would've presented a danger to herself that evening or to others or...you know...was she competent to...you know... continue? |
| Portolano: | I don't see that she would've been...hmmm....well, I...when I say...when I'm thinking of danger, I'm...I automatically think of take...wanting to...to take her life. Obviously she didn't want to take her life, but she was in such a confused state that |
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| .. like I said, when she was gonna move her car around, my partner said "My God"...you know... "She's gonna cause a...she's gonna wreck...have a wreck". Just because of the stress level that was so high. I don't think it would be anything that she would want to take her life. Umm... she wouldn't intentionally be in danger...you know...of danger to other people or to herself. But merely because of the high stress level, obviously she wasn't paying attention driving and that's how we got that accident...umm...that she in. So she couldn't...if she got back in her car, we. .we can't say for sure. But knowing how stressed out she was...how she couldn't think independently... she was doing very poor independent thinking and her thought processes were. .were very scrambled. Umm...you know...we can assume that her decision making would not...may not be safe down the road. Like if...if we let her get back,in the car and drive home...just because she is so upset, I would put it on the scale of when you...when you have a a motor vehicle accident or near accident where if you have an ejection. Let's just say the husband is ejected from the vehicle...the wife is fine...the vehicle's fine...and the husband dies on the scene. The wife is totally distraught. You're not going to allow that wife to get back in the car and drive to the hospital ,or...you know... if the husband is injured really bad...to the hospital. Umm... she was under that type of...1 wasn't gonna let her go... we'll put it that way. If she wasn't going to go voluntarily, she was going to go with a Baker Act' because she seemed... she appeared to be not able to |
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| make a safe decision...whether it be driving... whether it be doing anything else...uh... she could cause something else to happen to someone else or herself. | |
| Det. Sudler: | So, in your opinion she was Baker Act criteria? |
| Portolano: | Yes. |
| Det. Sudler: | If she hadn't volunteered, you...you would've saw to it that she was Baker Acted by one of the law officers there? |
| Portolano: | That's why we had them wait outside the ambulance until we could decide if she was' gonna go voluntarily. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Umm...do you recall the name of the...umm... nurse at Morton Plant ER that you spoke to? |
| Portolano: | You know...1 don't..Umm..that night was the first night I ever transferred a patient to that particular nurse. Umm...and since I had my interview with you the last time, I haven't seen her. So I was gonna try and find out her name. So...no, I don't.. I don't know her name. But I would know.,..1 would recognize her. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Umm...did she ever elaborate on what she meant by taking the eyes off of the object or... |
| Portolano: | No. |
| Det. Sudler: | That never came up again in conversation? |
| Portolano: | No. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Did she say anything else about any particular health problems or relationship problems or anything in her life that would've , - - brought about this period of crisis she was going through? |
| Portolano: | No, she didn't mention anything like that. And I don't want to make the taking the eyes; off the |
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| object was small. It was very big. However, I did not know what to do... SIDE TWO OF TAPE | |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. We're gonna continue this tape on side two as side one has ended. Bonnie, I'd like you to just continue your conversation. You were discussing.umm...you know...what she had said about taking the eyes off the object and...you know...what, if any, relevance or...you know... information she gave you concerning' that. |
| Portolano: | Right. I was just explaining that umm...that was... that was something very significant. It seemed to be umm... one of the most important things that was stressing her. It was the ob... taking her eyes off the object and that she had been doing bad things in her mind. Umm...and it...she did mention it over and over and over again although I did not know how to re-direct towards that because of my lack of knowledge in the Scientology... the Church of Scientology. So it...had I been educated in that, I could've...you know...delved further... further into it. But umm...due to that..due to my lack of knowledge, I...1 didn't get more information out of that. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Did you umm...note any...you know... any presence of alcohol or drugs...you know...any odor of alcohol on her or any indication that she had been under the influence of any...you know.. controlled substances. |
| Portolano: | We're very aware of our patients when we come across them...of...and the odor of alcohol...mannerisms |
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| that they may display due to alcohol or drugs. And she had none of those characteristics at all...at all. This just seemed to be someone that was very stressed... umm...not stressed and on drugs...not stressed and on alcohol...just stressed. | |
| Det. Sudler: | Did you specifically ask her...ask her if she was on anything,? |
| Portolano: | Umm...my report would show me if she had any prescription medications that she was taking. I don't have that in front of me right now but umm... at the time I was not concerned with umm...you know...have you taken more.. I would've pursued that line of questioning. Oh...let's say a person was on Diazipan or...you know... something like that... I would go into that and see.... "Are you taking it as' your doctor prescribed?" But umm...1... I found no need to question that way. So I have to say that uh...she probably didn't have those types of medications that she was on. And..and I'm not sure of the history. I don't have my report in front of me. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Do you remember what she was wearing that night...her clothing? |
| Portolano: | It was loose-fitting pants and what umm...and a cotton like slipover shirt I believe...just something really comfortable. Umm.. looked like she could've just had lunch with a friend kind of thing. Umm... other than that, all I remember seeing her-is with nothing on and a sheet. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. ,... |
| Portolano: | So I only saw her with clothes for a short amount of time. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Umm...were there any other individuals that |
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| you dealt with that night at the two accidents... that struck you as having any...you know...problems.you know...1 mean you said that it's frequent for people to be involved in accidents to be emotionally distraught. Were there any other people that presented this to you or was Lisa a special specific type of case? | |
| Portolano: | Lisa was special. I mean. .now granted the...the gentleman that she struck...you know...he had his emotions on a..on a totally different level. His was anger...you know. But that's totally acceptable. But her...her emotions were totally out of line... umm... of the norm. And uh...1 had never run into someone like that...you know...with...with those mannerisms...with that tone of voice...umm...and the.the eye contact. |
| Det. Sudler: | With regard to her tone of voice and her...her eye contact...umm...you mentioned that it was programmed. How... how so? Can you describe it? |
| Portolano: | Oh... like I would say "Lisa, can you move your...your car?" She would look right at me and go "Yes, I can do that". And she...and she would just like... everything was so uh... formal and..umm... just "Lisa, did you have your seatbelt on?"...."Yes, I'did" or "Lisa, did you hit your head?"..."No, I did not". You know...it was..those...just duh duh duh is how she was. And it...and it was just kinda odd. |
| Det. Sudler: | , It wasn't'f lowing conversation? |
| Portolano: | No, she would give you an answer. It was just ,a one sentence answer to what you asked. And when you asked the,,question, that's all you got...was like one sentence until, we got her in the back... you know... and I had a chance to just really let |
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| know that it's okay to talk to me. And somehow I got through to her...1 don't know how. But she would open up and start telling me little things. | |
| Det. Sudler: | Did she say why she took the clothes off? |
| Portolano: | The only reason she stated on why she took her clothes' off...number one was because she was an OT and she didn't need a body. I didn't know what that meant, so I couldn't address that. |
| Det. Sudler: | She didn't need a body? |
| Portolano: | She didn't need a body. Umm.. I kinda thought looney tunes...you know...right away. I had..1 don't know what an OT is. I didn't know she was a Scientologist at this time and I was thinking okay...you know...it's gonna be one of these kinds of call because we have them frequently. And so it's like next step...you know...let's...let's find out what else is going on here. But umm...now I'm aware. You said OT is something very significant in... in the Church of Scientology. Umm... also, she stated that she took off her clothes because she wanted people to think she was crazy. She says "I wanted people to think I was crazy so then they would help me". So she definitely wanted help. |
| Det. Sudler: | Umm... I've shown you some photographs here today. Umm...but I want to point out. to you...and I'm going from your recollection of what Lisa looked like that night when she presented to you. Now these are photographs...you know...albeit they're from the Medical. Examiner's Office at the time of her autopsy. But they're dated 12/6/95 and they're basically photographs...two photographs of Lisa. One was a uh...scale by Technician John Grubb of the Sheriff's Office. And.uh.. I believe she has |
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| an endotracheal tube... | |
| Portolano: | Yes. |
| Det. Sudler: | And some evidence of medical treatment. Can you describe the similarities or differences? I mean is this in fact the person who presented themselves as Lisa McPherson to you? |
| Portolano: | Yes, this is Lisa Mcpherson. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. What are the differences...you know...in her appearance and anything that you might note or similarities?' |
| Portolano: | Initially when I saw this picture...umm.. I noticed her face looked a lot thinner. Umm... she was umm... she wasn't heavy but she was very full figured. Umm...and her face was fuller than this. This is a lot thinner. Umm... she has a bruise on her right cheekbone or something is there. It's some kind of marking. That...that was not there. I'm looking under her eye. Umm...it appears...her eyes didn't really have bags underneath them or any...you know... dark circles...none of that. Her complexion was totally clear. But this picture presents with like what we call a "raccoon's eye"...uh...in the medical field.,.. just bruising underneath the eye due to some type of trauma to either the nose or... or the eyebrow bone or possibly the zygomatic...the bone right underneath the eye...umm...where there would be some bruising right there. It's not a great amount of bruising uh...but it is...it's definitely there. Umm...I'm sorry... |
| Det. Sudler: | No, that's fine. ::that's'fine'; So.';;but you-would say that she looks thinner than she did? |
| Portolano: | She does look thinner than she did. And I don't know what this is on her chin.. But she didn't |
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| have any of that. | |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. So none of these marks. And umm...we'll do... |
| Portolano: | Okay... , |
| Det. Sudler: | Some more photographs here of...overall photographs of her legs... |
| Portolano: | Uh Huh. |
| Det. Sudler: | Her general phys...physical stature...can you describe that? |
| Portolano: | Okay. |
| Det. Sudler: | When...as compared to when you saw her before. |
| Portolano: | Right. |
| Det. Sudler: | Did she have any of the bruises that were noted on her? |
| Portolano: | Yeah. I'm looking right now at the lateral view of her right leg and...and her foot. I mean... geez, she's got like sores all over her foot. She didn't have any of this. Her skin was totally intact. There were no bruising..nothing to that effect. It totally appears that there's trauma to this lateral aspect of her right leg and down . here by umm...I.. I would say her distal...lower right leg umm...as well. And...and her inner thigh on her. left leg...ah, and bruises ,on her inner uh...left leg... lower leg as well. None of that...none of that. |
| Det. Sudler: | None of these were present? |
| Portolano: | Also her hip. Her hip has bruising on it. And you know... granted she was in a motor vehicle accident uh...that was not jarring at all. You know...we always look or inspect for seatbelt trauma right there. But she didn't have anything noticed. And this looks to be-around...some of |
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| these are two different legs. It looks like maybe like a... looks like maybe a lip of a strap or something, but... | |
| Det. Sudler: | But she didn't have any of these marks that you're referring to on the ankles... |
| Portolano: | Right. |
| Det. Sudler: | Or any of these bruises. Her...her skin was basically unremarkable that... |
| Portolano: | She was a...she was very...she was a-fair complected woman and umm...she had no markings...none...no bruising...umm...no dis...no noticeable like moles or anything like that...nothing. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. |
| Portolano: | And here we have like...we have uh...lacerations. I'm not even sure what body parts they're... |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Those...those would be by the Medical Examiner just to examine the depth of the bruising. |
| Portolano: | Okay. |
| Det. Sudler: | So those are aft... |
| Portolano: | Okay. |
| Det. Sudler: | After autopsy or during autopsy. |
| Portolano: | Yeah. |
| Det. Sudler: | But none of the areas of bruising that were noted? |
| Portolano: | No. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Portolano:. None of that was there. And...you know...and.. the best thing was that she took off all of her clothes so that we know that she didn't have any of this before. |
| Det. Sudler: | Alright. And did she complain of any injuries to you? , |
| Portolano: | None. . |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. |
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| Portolano: | None. |
| Det. Sudler: | Alright. You...how long ago or how long after you had taken her to Morton Plant Hospital was it that you found out that she had been released and later died? |
| Portolano: | Well, I really can't get...1 mean...1 could get all my run reports from that night ,and see when...you know...the next time... it was the next time I went into Morton Plant and...you know...my nights can... it could've been...you know... two hours later'... it could've been six hours later. So I...I'm not... |
| Det. Sudler: | It was the same night though? |
| Portolano: | That same night. |
| Det. Sudler: | You found out that she was released? |
| Portolano: | Right. |
| Det. Sudler: | And then when did you find out that she had died? |
| Portolano: | I would say it was about a month later. Det. Sudler:. Okay. From talking.to the same R.N.? |
| Portolano: | Yeah, the same R.N. The R.N. came over to me and said "Hey, you remember that Scientologist you brought in?" I said "Yeah". She said "You know what...she died"...you know..."two weeks later". So she told me. |
| Det. Sudler: | And she told you what she died of? |
| Portolano: | She told me she died of a pulmonary embolism. I don't know what she died of but that's what I was told. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Airight. Did she elaborate on how she had found that.out?.. |
| Portolano: | No. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. |
| Portolano: | I thought maybe there was just...either they do patient tracking but...you know...they usually |
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| only track like for a week...you know...but... because I don't know... | |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Do you know who the attending physician was that night? |
| Portolano: | No, I do not. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. |
| Portolano: | But that wouldn't be hard to find out. |
| Det. Sudler: | Airight. Umm...right now I can't think of anything else to add Bonnie. Was there anything that I might have neglected to cover or that you can recall? |
| Portolano: | I think...1 think we covered it all. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. Well, if you need to...you know.. fill anything...you know.. in on this or anything... you know... should come to you later on...go ahead and give me a call and we'll include it in our report. |
| Portolano: | Okay. |
| Det. Sudler: | Okay. I thank you for coming in. I'm gonna go ahead and conclude the taped interview now. The time is now 1459 hours. |
REPORTING: Det. Ron Sudler/elg ID NO: 608 DATE: 4/2/96 E STATUS: Active EXCEPTION TYPE: _______ DATE CLEARED:___________ ARANCE TYPE _______ 1. Extradition Declined Arrest 2. AR of Prim. Offense, Secondary Offense. w/o Pros Adult ____Juv ____ 3. Death of Offender 5. Prosecution Deci Exceptional - 4. V/W Refused to Cooperate 6. Juv./No Custody Unfounded REVIEWING:____________________ DATE:__________ SA INFO: ____________